” … Maybe you can come up with your own euphemisms for these Muslim rioters …”
ok, how’s this:
‘non-Christian, non-Jewish, non-Buddhist, non-Hindu,
non-agnostic, non-atheist, non-vegan, non-environmentalist, non-dialoging, non-law-abiding,
agitated, perpetually-outraged, youth”

exdemexlib on November 28, 2007 at 4:24 pm

Rioters for the religion of peace and love have exposed their disgusting behaviour once again. The rest of the world struggles with labels for these savages. How about that? It sounds good to this writer. According to the web site religionofpeace.com, the body count is well over 10000 since 9-11-01. No drive by media coverage either. Imagine that. Fire up the bombers George, it’s time to help out France yet again.

samurai on November 28, 2007 at 4:28 pm

If it was up to me, my euphemism for all of them would be “targets”.

j5050 on November 28, 2007 at 4:38 pm

I’ve heard “Disenfranchised youth” used as a mantra-like euphemism.
Definition of disenfranchised: deprived of the rights of citizenship especially the right to vote.

Yishai on November 28, 2007 at 4:40 pm

Descriptive: “Youthful Mujahedeen”
Nondescript: “Youthful Bipeds”

Yishai on November 28, 2007 at 5:04 pm

Deb–
As more and more of my fellow Catholics now believe (even if they are saying this out loud…)
We should have wiped them out during the Crusades when we had the chance.
MANY Catholics feel that we are now paying the price for this, and it was “catalyzed” by Roe v. Wade.
To see what is happening to France, once the home of great saints, is beyond tragic.

Red Ryder on November 28, 2007 at 5:38 pm

Here is a euphemisim for you:
Pyromaniac Arsenalics

Jew Chick on November 28, 2007 at 5:43 pm

We live in bizaro-world. Why are they letting this happen? It should have been nipped in the bud the first night.

nyone on November 28, 2007 at 5:47 pm

how about . . .
ìAnnual islamic pyro-carnival erupts in Parisî

miira on November 28, 2007 at 6:12 pm

How about “disenfranchised, moon god worshiping, infidel blonde virgin craving, ugly Muslim woman to spite male infidel who doesn’t even want to look at her covering, French government that let them immigrate there from their barbaric country blaming, male youth.”

Gabe on November 28, 2007 at 6:25 pm

Is this a contest with prizes going to the winners? If so, I vote for Jew Chick.
Those crazy French people, I wonder when are they going to surrender to those “youths”… or has it already happened?

cinerx on November 28, 2007 at 6:59 pm

How about anti-Humans?

HelyeahWinnie on November 28, 2007 at 7:55 pm

I could give a shit what these barbarians are called because a murderer by any other name is still a murderer!!
I would also bet my last dollar that you couldn’t cram one more AK-47 into one of their mosques over there. I’m sure that the same is also true here. As effective as we are with dealing with the Mexican military and drug cartels on the border I bet that we too will hoist the white flag in Dearbornistan at the first sign of ‘yoots’ gone wild!!

newinnewark on November 28, 2007 at 10:37 pm

The issue for the French is that they sold all of their guns at the very beginning of WWII.
The ads read: Guns for sale
Never been shot
Only dropped once

newinnewark on November 28, 2007 at 10:45 pm

You are wrong, my friend; France is one of the few (if any) Euro countries where citizens can own guns.
France is very similar to the US, in that their citizens are OK, it’s their government that sucks.
The people sort of hate the Muslims, who are their illegal aliens and immigrants much like our Mexicans (and further south) are not well liked here.

LocalLawman on November 28, 2007 at 11:33 pm

You people are so clueless it’s difficult to know where to begin.
You are all tied in to this nasty little paradigm where you spread lies and hatred about a country and a situation you quite clearly know absolutely nothing about. You did it last week on the Anna Frank thread and you are doing it again here.
I suppose I could take my time and explain what is really happening in France, but do you really want to know the truth? I doubt it.
These are not Muslim riots, those few rioters who have religious views at all are Muslims, Christians and Jews and every other religion you can think of, and let us not forget, of every skin colour known to man. They are riots of the disposessed, who have been dumped in the Banlieus and left to rot by the uncaring, unknowing French political and intellectual elite.
This is not religious warfare, it is class warfare.
But you don’t care about such concepts as ‘truth’ do you?
You only want to be able to share in this self-reinforcing myth of a Europe taken over by Muslims, a non-existent Europe that only exists in your imaginations like a far-right wet-dream.
Then just ask yourself this one question before Debbie bans me from this website again.
If the French are such pussies as you claim, how come the French Army regularly kicks the US Army’s ass in NATO exercises?
[NP: UM, NICE TRY, BUT EVEN AP ADMITS THAT THE RIOTERS ARE MOSTLY ARABS. THEY WON’T SAY MUSLIMS, BUT WE KNOW THE TRUTH. FOR YOU TO CLAIM THAT JEWS AND CHRISTIANS ARE AMONG THE RIOTERS, IS DEFAMATORILY ABSURD. WOULD LOVE TO SEE YOUR PROOF ON THAT. SHOW ME ONE JEW INVOLVED IN THE RIOTS. DS]

No Pasaran! on November 29, 2007 at 3:15 am

No Pasaran,
I’m sorry my friend that you’ve chosen to place your head where the sun will never shine.
Looking down your nose at us mere ‘mortals’ does nothing but make you look foolish.
You are partially correct in saying that the French kick our asses in NATO exercises. They always win the ‘running the white flag up the pole’ competition. As far as anything else ‘not so much’.

newinnewark on November 29, 2007 at 7:28 am

Don’t they come from where the Barbary Pirates used to live until President Jefferson sent the marines?

John Cunningham on November 29, 2007 at 9:41 am

By listening to the news coverage, one might of thought that the dubunked 70’s Rock & Roll band named “Quiet Riot” had just Faux finished performing over in Nice. But if I were to give a name to the so-called disenchanted youths over there in France, I would name them “Sub-Human Croissants”. P.S. You can devour this term and make it your own if you please.

LIONFAN on November 29, 2007 at 9:58 am

“They always win the ‘running the white flag up the pole’ competition. As far as anything else ‘not so much’.”
Wrong, wrong, wrong. In battle simulation the US army almost invariably comes dead last in NATO exercises.

No Pasaran! on November 29, 2007 at 11:16 am

Didn’t a CNN reporter refer to them as “African-American-French Youths?” Classic PCism gone awry.

Candy Slice on November 29, 2007 at 11:17 am

We should put the notion of the French being surrender monkeys to rest. Without France supporting the American revolution, this country would not exist. I mean, yes, the Germans handed them their behinds in WW II, but German tactics were so far superior they just would have killed thousands upon thousands more with the same result. Yes they lost the Franco-Prussian War, yes the Haitians slaughtered them, yes they lost their colonial wars, yes they lost the Napoleonic wars, yes the Brits and U.S. bailed them out in WWI, yes they left their Foreign Legion hanging out to dry at Dien Bien Phu andÖwell, wait a minute, I guess the world has made a habit of kicking French ass. But to be fair, we had a similar amount of success in Vietnam, and if not for Charles Martel, we all might be wearing burkhas. France gets a lot of heat from us for not supporting our invasion Iraq because they believed Saddam was a contained threat, and that there were no WMDs. In retrospect, can you say they were off base? In general, I think we give the French a harder time than they deserve, even though they are a country of ingrates.
I think there are a lot of lessons in this current situation. Firstly, of course this is primarily a Muslim influenced and led riot. There is a Christian element still involved, which was behind other riots years ago, and is derived primarily from West African immigrants and their descendants. In any event, my main concern is that France has put an emphasis on immigrants becoming French. Some now criticize this as a cause of the riots, but is that not what people should want when they move to a new country, to become a member of its society? Yes these people live in a depressed economic situation, but they are part of the problem, as France, with its 30-35 hour workweeks, early retirements, high relative wages and huge social spending make it less competitive than its neighbors. Their economy is stagnate and provides little opportunity for growth, which is what these communities need.
These rioters already have educational, housing and health benefits that are the envy of much of the world. Of course that is relative to their own perceptions when they look to wealthier areas of France, but what would they have the government do, spend more money? But even a socialist like NP has to admit there are limits to what a government can do.
No, this is about foreign nationals and their first generation descendants wanting to establish their own cultural settlements. Why then did they move to France? Iíll tell you why, because it sucks in Sierra Leone, Morocco and Algeria. Would they get these housing, educational and health benefits in their native countries, puh-leeease? They want jobs? Hey, I am sure the French government wants them to work too, but 10 percent of French are regularly unemployed, most native born whites. Is it class distinction that perpetuates this problem, or the French economic model. France and the French people have been generous to a fault to their immigrants, and have always encouraged assimilation. Short of providing them three meals a day and a salary for doing nothing, thay have done all they should. This is what we should expect to evolve from a North African immigrant culture barely removed from the stoning of aldulterers, honor killings, and beheadings, or the limb-hacking, child soldier creating culture of West Africans. These riots are just another symptom of these immigrants and first generation refusing to leave their barbaric culture behind.

Staypositive on November 29, 2007 at 11:19 am

All – The dates and locations for next year’s “Annual Muslim Riots in France” have not yet been established. However, my young nephew who lives there is on the organizing committee and tells me that they are working on it, even as this year’s rendition winds to a close. They will be posting a website – http://www.annualmuslimriotsinfrance.com with an entire menu options of fun events and activities. My nephew tells me that they hope to have a contest to name the theme for next year’s riots; the winner will get to draw the ceremonial first AK-47 from the mosque armory! The committee also plans on inviting a number of impoverished and angry youths to attend the festivities; they’ve never been involved or participated in any riot or riot-like event. The committee has set a goal that next year’s riots will be as large as those seen throughout France in 2006 for which, unfortunately, Muslims received absolutely NO credit for starting. Can you imagine that? A nation-wide event of that magnitude which resulted in death and wide-spread destruction and we Muslims got zero credit for it? That’s just not right! The 2008 organizing committee in France hopes to avoid that happening again and do their part to ensure that anything and everything that is wrong, bad, evil, or not good is automatically credited to the Muslim community.

abdulnasik on November 29, 2007 at 11:40 am

Staypositive, a little OT, but you struck a nerve with one thing you said. If you get a chance read hnn.us/articles/31400.html Back in the 70s it took them two years to stab in the back 58,000 dead GIs. Nowadays they’re (democrats) trying to stab them in the back right to their face, while they’re alive.

John Cunningham on November 29, 2007 at 6:38 pm

JC,
I agree, the U.S. had suppressed most of the VC activity by 1973, won every major battle and nearly every engagement. I also agree that the South fell because of the North Vietnamese and their own inability to fight. Doesn’t change the fact that we were ultimately unsuccessful. Despite billions of dollars and 50,000 plus dead, 12 years of combat troops and training and tactics, the ARVN still got rolled in two months. The Vietnamese society never bought into what we were selling enough to put up a fight. For the average Vietnamese peasant, what’s the difference between a communist dictatorship and a corrupt capitalist regime. Nothing, so why bleed and die. I’m sure they look back and regret it, and of course those who were educated, entrepreneurs, Catholics, Francophiles and the boat people regretted it immediately.
As to stabbing the GI’s of today in the back, I disagree. The role of the invasion was to depose Saddam and root out WMDs. Well, Saddam’s dead, there were no WMDs and the vacuum left by taking out a dictator and replacing it with anarchy leaves a good question about whether or not we shuold stay. I’ve heard and read interviews of plenty of GI’s that have said they think Iraq would be better off if we left. I’ve also heard the opposite from soldiers. If people on the ground have different opinions, why wouldn’t our politicians? If people think that the region would be more stable and our security improved by leaving, then having that position doesn’t mean they are betraying soldiers.
I personally believe we can’t leave or it will become (or actually remain) what Afghanistan was: a haven and training ground for terrorists. Before the war, Christians in Iraq owned businesses, held positions in government, went to church, made up much of the professional class of doctors and engineers. Now they’re running for their lives to places like Syria. But leaving it would make things worse for whatever Christians, moderate Muslims, or secularists that are left. But if someone believes that the fuel for the insurgency is our presence, and that it would dissipate and the Iraqi government would have more support and legitimacy to fight its own battles if we are gone, then that person is NOT stabbing anyone in the back/face/ass. What I don’t agree with are those who say it doesn’t matter whether or not our security or the welfare of the Iraqis is at stake

Staypositive on November 30, 2007 at 1:03 am

Staypositive, they’re returning by the bus load because the surge has been successful enough to instill a sense of safety for them to return from Syria. Can you believe even Murtha says things are turning around? As in RVN when we left Cambodia turned into the Killing Fields of Pol Pot and the 2 million dead. To their credit Vietnam moved in to stop the slaughter. That wouldn’t have happened in the first place if the democrats hadn’t stiffed the South Vietnamese in ’75 by cutting the budget in half and the South simply ran out of ammunition. We left them with a reasonable facsimile of a democracy and a pretty well trained military and the promise that’d we’d give them all the help they needed short of returning to the 500,000 we had in the country. The democrats even fixed it so that we couldn’t even use our Air Force to give them air cover when the north launched their chinese communist financed blitzkreig. If we left, Iran would roll right into Iraq because they’d need the oil revenue to continue with their program to re-establish the former Caliphate. The democrats by putting time constraints on the funding would give the enemy a time frame to work with. All they have to do is wait until the time constraints placed by the democrats arrives, the US military leaves, they’ll have reconstituted and then resume their program. It took the democrats two years of stating that they were going to tear to shreds by cutting funding what had taken the efforts of 58,000 dead ten years to accomplish that’s why I’m saying this time around they want time limits which tells the enemy when we’ll be leaving, they’ll reconstitute in Iran in the meantime and then when we leave roll right in, stabbing the US military in the back right to their face, while they’re alive. The democrats handed South Vietnam to the communists giving one the impression they were in bed with them back in ’75 just as they’re giving the impression that they’re in bed with the islamofacists today. I saw what they did then and I see they’re doing the same today. Besides, all this effort in Afghanistan and Iraq is part of a telegraphing our punch that is aimed at Iran and will be put into play very shortly. You don’t think we’ve come this far and leave imadinnerjacket and the mollusks in Tehran?

John Cunningham on November 30, 2007 at 2:57 am

“I think there are a lot of lessons in this current situation. Firstly, of course this is primarily a Muslim influenced and led riot. There is a Christian element still involved, which was behind other riots years ago, and is derived primarily from West African immigrants and their descendants.”
This is a very shallow analysis I think. To describe these riots as “Muslim lead” is factually incorrect and misses the point anyway.
The population of the Banlieus is taken from the entire Diaspora of colonial France, and ordinary working class French people. So there are ethnically French, French Jews, North Africans, central Africans, West African, Caribbeanís (Guadeloupe, Martinique, St. Martin etc) South-East Asian (Vietnamese) and so on. To describe all of these people as Muslims is simply statistically incorrect.
It’s irrelevant because it’s the equivalent of calling the problems in Ireland “Christian Riots”. The Catholics and Protestants in Belfast were not shooting each other because they were Christians; they were not bombing each other because of their different interpretations of the Reformation or Diet of Speyer. The ‘troubles’ in Ireland were about racism, colonialism, exploitation, prejudice, social injustice, and equality of opportunity – politics in other words. The riots in the Banlieus are about exactly the same things.
Let me tell you a little story.
My good friend Phillipe was born into a solid working class family in the south of France. Being from the wrong side of the tracks he was not able to go to the best local schools. Despite this he went on to achieve a brilliant academic record, one that should have gotten him into any university in the world. Despite this he could not get into the French elite University system, because he didn’t have the right family connections or influence, and because he went to the wrong kind of high-school. Despite this, by attending ‘lesser’ universities at home and abroad he eventually attained three Master’s Degrees. (In architecture, urban-planning and an MBA.) Despite this he was not able to attain a senior management position anywhere in France because he didn’t attend an elite University.
Eventually he had to leave France to get on, becoming the second-lead architect on the design of Stanstead Airport and eventually becoming a member of the Directorate of the European Space Agency.
Imagine though had he not had his brilliant intellect? What chance would he have had? Even he was forced to leave France to get on. For the vast majority of those born on the wrong side of the tracks in France it’s a life sentence, there is no way out. That’s what these riots are about.
**
“In any event, my main concern is that France has put an emphasis on immigrants becoming French. Some now criticize this as a cause of the riots, but is that not what people should want when they move to a new country, to become a member of its society?”
The French failed experiment in mono-culturalism is indeed one factor in the social problems they face. For instance, we have no real idea what the unemployment rate amongst black people is in France, simply because the government refuses to collect those statistics. Their attitude is ìThey are French, what does it matter what colour their skin is?î But that of course is hopelessly naÔve, it simply allows society to look the other way, and sweep the problem of mass-unemployment under the carpet. You cannot have a fully functioning multi-racial society that does not recognize and celebrate its cultural differences. The French need to embrace multi-culturalism, this is a lesson they still havenít learned.
**
ìThese rioters already have educational, housing and health benefits that are the envy of much of the world. ì
Nonsense. You need to rent the movie ìLa Haineî sometime, take a look at that. You might learn something, but even if you donít itís a great movie.
So itís a win-win.
**
ìOf course that is relative to their own perceptions when they look to wealthier areas of France, but what would they have the government do, spend more money? But even a socialist like NP has to admit there are limits to what a government can do.î
Iíve never said governments can do everything, but what they could do is to give people hope. They can try to convince people that they are acting in the interests of the ENTIRE nation, and not just of the powerful and the political elite. The population of the Banlieus need to know that if they work hard, and if their kids study hard there is a way to better their lives. Right now that possibility is not open to them. Thatís one thing the French government could do, that would not represent ìthrowing money at the problemî as you right-wingers put it.
They could also recruit police officers that were not racist thugs, that would be another step in the right direction.
**
ìNo, this is about foreign nationals and their first generation descendants wanting to establish their own cultural settlements.î
Well of course they do. Itís called ìSecond Generation Syndromeî ñ itís the same process that leads to the formation of
Islamic terrorist cells in the U.K. and Latino gangs in Los Angeles.
**
The rest of your post is just a standard racist diatribe, nothing worth responding to. I suspect even you know itís bollocks.

No Pasaran! on November 30, 2007 at 4:32 am

No Pasaran, the latest estimates are that 12 to 35 million illegals have tripped over themselves to enter the country to get a job. I think the criminal gangs are criminal gangs because they want to be criminal gangs. Criminals don’t want to work. The immigrants, be they illegal or legal have one thing to their favor, they show up everyday and don’t give you attitude.

John Cunningham on November 30, 2007 at 5:18 am

JC,
I agree with you that should we leave, Iran would likely fill the vacuum. Ultimately, having one side (the Shiites) win and a probably a fractured north only seems like a prescription for more violence.
I think the U.S. could defeat Iran in a conventional war, what would we then do with a country of almost 70 million? Think there would be even the slightest support for anyone we would put in power? We’d be left with a dramatically worse situation than in Iraq now. That and the Iranian armed forces wouldn’t roll over like in Iraq. There are still moderates in Iran who may have a chance to influence the country’s direction. The threat of invasion only wants them to have nukes even more. Iran can be contained and marginalized in the long run, its not like the Sunni countries surrounding it are all excited about them grabbing power and gaining nukes.
NP,
I’ll just have to disagree with you on this:
“You cannot have a fully functioning multi-racial society that does not recognize and celebrate its cultural differences. The French need to embrace multi-culturalism, this is a lesson they still havenÔø?t learned.”
I think there is a difference between retaining and celbrating your heritage and a society of fractured cultures. I know you have expressed before antipathy towards religions in general, an influencing element, whether Christian, Muslim, or animist of the French immigrant lives. You hardly seem to be willing to celbrate that cultural difference.
As for “standard racist diatribe”, I never mentioned race, nor do I think race and physical characteristics have anything to do with behavior. But cultural influences do. North Africans, as I am sure you know, come in every color and stripe. The fact is, that most of these immigrants have come from “cultures” where barbarism and stone-age (not technologically) societies exist and were accepted. Should the French embrace honor killings, subjugation of women, etc. Those countries from which these immigrants left are failures because of their culture, not the race of the people. They have CHOSEN to move to France, and France has told them “You are one of us”. If you move to another country, retain your heritage, but celebrate the French culture, which has given them more than they have given it.
As for France being a country where you can’t get ahead when coming from the wrong side of the track, last I checked the president there was the child of immigrants. Can’t be that bad.
As for right-wing opinions, I don’t disapprove of government spending and intervention in society or the economy. There does come a point of diminishing returns. And while I’m not trying to say the working class or immigrants of France live in the lap of luxury, they certainly are given dramatically more in social benefits than here in the U.S. While our immigrant and first generation population from the Caribbean, West Africa and North Africa appear to be moving up the socioeconomic ladder at a higher rate. Particularly those many I call friends and family members.

Staypositive on November 30, 2007 at 8:31 am

Staypositive, stay positive.

John Cunningham on November 30, 2007 at 8:58 am

” I know you have expressed before antipathy towards religions in general, an influencing element, whether Christian, Muslim, or animist of the French immigrant lives. You hardly seem to be willing to celbrate that cultural difference.”
My antipathy towards all religion knows no bounds. However I do not believe that a culture is defined by it’s religious connections.
**
“As for France being a country where you can’t get ahead when coming from the wrong side of the track, last I checked the president there was the child of immigrants. Can’t be that bad.”
Nicolas Paul StÈphane Sarkˆzy de Nagy-Bocsa was born of Hungarian and Greek nobility. He grew up in a mansion in Paris’s bourgois et tres chique 17eme arrondissement.
You’ve just proven my point for me.

No Pasaran! on November 30, 2007 at 9:33 am

“No Pasaran, the latest estimates are that 12 to 35 million illegals have tripped over themselves to enter the country to get a job. I think the criminal gangs are criminal gangs because they want to be criminal gangs. Criminals don’t want to work. The immigrants, be they illegal or legal have one thing to their favor, they show up everyday and don’t give you attitude.”
You are wrong J.C.
(I’ve always wanted to say that, ha ha.)
Second generation syndrome refers to the sons of immigrants who can form very tight bonds with others in their socio-political class. These bonds can be so intense that all other forms of social interaction are excluded, leaving the group increasingly isolated from their community. They become bound together by strict roles, disciplinary rules and social etiquette, typically with a marked XXX political structure. It’s this process that the CIA believes leads to the formation of both street gangs and terrorist cells. Much was made (for instance) of the wealthy and privelidged background of many of the 9/11 plotters. However this misses the point that many of them were expats, many living in Western Europe.
It’s important to note the difference in attitudes, beliefs and motivations of the SGS terrorists, and (for instance) suicide bombers in Palestine. This last group tends to be ill-educated stone-loners and social miss-fits. Given both social and self esteem for the first time in their lives by their chosen roll as shahid.

No Pasaran! on November 30, 2007 at 9:55 am

No Pasaran, I should have been clearer. The immigrants, be they legal or illegal are the ones here in the United States. The LA gangs you mentioned are criminals because they want to be criminals. Like I said we have 12 to 35 million that have tripped over themselves to enter the country illegally to get a job. There’s no shortage of jobs here in the US that anyone “has to lead a life of crime” to survive. Those that don’t work in this country think they’re too good to work and think they should be given jobs as CEOs even though they can hardly read and write. This may also pertain to those “disaffected yutes” we hear about in France. I think the criminal mind is the same all over the planet.

John Cunningham on November 30, 2007 at 1:12 pm

Hey NP,
“Thousands of Sudanese, many armed with clubs and knives, rallied Friday in a central square and demanded the execution of a British teacher convicted of insulting Islam for allowing her students to name a teddy bear “Muhammad.”
Let’s all celebrate this cultural difference.
All for naming a teddy bear after a popular classmate. This happeend in the Sudan, but could have occurred in Niger, Pakistan, Indonesia, etc. Once again, not about race, it’s culture.
As for your belief that a culture is not “defined by it’s religious connections.” I’ll buy that to a degree. For most religions other than Islam. I think a culture is defined by religion when the tenets of that religion dictate your dress, interaction with the opposite sex, education, permissible art and literature, governance and court system.
Keep celebrating, and hey, maybe you can join the party down there in Sudan, I’m sure they’d welcome you. What, with all the openess their culture has for atheists. And from all the photos, looks liek from all the dancing and chanting they’re having a blast.

Staypositive on November 30, 2007 at 1:44 pm

So guys, I see you have both given up debating and have taken to throwing around gratuitous insults instead. That’s a shame I was just starting to enjoy myself. Briefly, I thought I had finally found conservative opponents with a functioning brain.
**
S.P. what point are you trying to make?
That Islamic fundamentalists won’t like me because I’m a Godless Socialist?
Well, duuuuuuuuhhhhhhh. Ya think?
How is that possibly relevant to this debate?
I thought we were talking to about the heroic struggle of the working class warriors in France. How is that relevant to these religious morons and other idiots in the Sudan? How did you get that connection into your head?
Really, I would love to know.
**
JC, great piece of deliberate-point-avoiding there.
The point is, these people don’t join gangs with the express purpose of committing crime. They join for solidarity, and mutual protection. That in turn, given the SGS circumstances, turns into so mething a good deal more sinister.

No Pasaran! on November 30, 2007 at 4:48 pm

NP,
Where’s the connection in my head? When you state your belief that a culture is not defined by it’s religious connections. The nuts in Sudan were served up as an extreme example of why, especially in the case of Isalm, it isn’t true. For a more benign example, but no less informed by their religious connection, see the culture of the Amish in the U.S.
That those who espouse this radical culture would hand you your godless socialist head is obvious. It was meant to poke at your contention that cultural differences should be celebrated. Some, absolutely should not. Again, on one hand you want France and European nations to celebrate multi-culturalism, and on the other you rightfully pan radical Islam. But we’ve been over this before, you believe that Islam doesn’t drive the north African, Arab, Iranian and certain South Asian cultures and their European expats. I believe it is the common driver.
Oh, and while the functioning level of my brain is debatable, I would never claim to be a conservative (compared with yourself though, I suppose everyone on this board is). Sure, the insults were gratuitous, but it’s not like you haven’t gone there yourself. You just did it with better humor.
I will try a more witty insult next time. Although being American probably makes me inherently less capable than a European. I’m still laughing at this one:
“the heroic struggle of the working class warriors in France”
Now, that was really funny!

Staypositive on November 30, 2007 at 5:46 pm

I like “Ghost youths” because they are never described factually. They arrive from nowhere and leave to nowhere. They have no heights, weights, eye or hair colors. They wear no recognizable clothing, speak no recognizable language and have no names. They are ghosts.
The only factual information ever provided is that they are youths.

Mike on November 30, 2007 at 11:55 pm

“Again, on one hand you want France and European nations to celebrate multi-culturalism, and on the other you rightfully pan radical Islam. But we’ve been over this before, you believe that Islam doesn’t drive the north African, Arab, Iranian and certain South Asian cultures and their European expats. I believe it is the common driver.”
It isn’t.
I suspect you don’t know many Muslims. I interact with Muslims every day. They are my neighbors, my Maroccan shopkeepers, my Turkish tailors, my colleague and my team-mates.
But if you ask the guys in my cricket team to define themselves, they will tell you “I am Pakistani, or in one case “I am Afghan.” They don’t say “I am Muslim”, they are not defined as human beings by Islam. They are notionally Islamic in the same way that white people in Europe are notionally Christian, even though nobody I know goes to church any more. But they don’t dress differently than me, they don’t have beards as long as a man’s fist, they play music, they play sport, and they drink beer when their wives aren’t looking.
So to some up, that’s one of the two points I’ve been trying to make on this thread. Firstly that the rioters in France are not necesarily Muslims as debby wrongly claimed. Secondly those rioters who are Muslims are not rioting because they are Muslims, they riot because they are without hope..
**
“the heroic struggle of the working class warriors in France”
Now, that was really funny!”
Thanks, I have my moments.

No Pasaran! on December 1, 2007 at 2:19 am

“Misunderstood Spirited Youth”, perhaps?

equinoxranch on December 17, 2007 at 7:09 pm