That could have happened in the Drew-king medical facility in LA where some of the most incompetent and lazy personnel worked. They killed so many before the government took action. Nevertheless this level of incompetence may become the norm across the country.

Chuck on August 25, 2009 at 4:50 pm

This is a terrible thing to happen. I’m not defending this incident for a moment. Please don’t make out that this is the norm, however. It’s not. FAR from it. Are there never any cases of medical/surgical incompetence in the US? I can find you three cases right off.

That is NOT state-run health care. That is one instance surgeon error, albeit a serious one. There is a VAST difference.

Also, what is this “government mandated ‘end of life’ counseling. Debbie – tell the truth, use facts, but stop scaremongering. You do yourself and your readers a massive disservice by jumping on the hysteria bandwagon.

Alison on August 25, 2009 at 4:54 pm

Debbie, do you really think something like this could happen under Obamacare? That’s ridiculous. There’s no way the guy could make it to age 35 under Obamacare.

JimmyC on August 25, 2009 at 4:55 pm

Question: Where will such as this describes ever find redress once Obamacare is in place?

Answer–they won’t, because the government gives itself immunity from such liability.

Allison needs to tell us her angle–why does she defend such a train wreck as Obamacare?

BB on August 25, 2009 at 5:09 pm

Have any of you been through the VA (Veterans Administration) Health Care? I was back in the early 1990’s, and that is government run health care. I don’t know how much it may have improved since then, but let me tell you, if the VA is indicative of Gov’t run health care that we may get under Odopey, all of you should be trembling in fear. Long waits, tons of paperwork, typical government employees like you would see at the DMV, unclean conditions due to ‘cost cutting’, and getting the wrong treatment are just a few of the things you can expect.

I went to the VA hospital in Philly, and it was awful. I won’t bore you with too many details, but let’s just say it was a death trap. Doctors there were either fresh out of medical school who practiced on you or incompetent doctors who couldn’t hack it in a private practice. They actually had a cemetery right next to the hospital. All that was missing was a chute that was pointed at an open grave.

J: Made exactly this point here:
http://www.debbieschlussel.com/5457/what-happened-to-soldier-colton-read-a-scary-preview-of-obamacare/
Great minds think alike.
DS

Jarhead on August 25, 2009 at 5:35 pm

When I was visiting in Great Britain back in 1990s, I had a terrible ear ache and was slightly dizzy.

A hotel desk clerk suggested I see the local ( ONLY) doctor in the town. He called and told them I would come over the next day.

Ok, the day came and I left the hotel around 830AM. I walked all over the high street and whatever the low streets are called for over an hour, looking for the address and following the directions given me by that desk clerk. I asked at the pharmacy I saw on a corner and was given a reasonable set of directions. It seems I already had passed it twice on my hunt.

AHA!! At last I had found the place………….ugh…

The doctor’s “office” was at the rear of a badly delapidated house and in a really shabby ally way. Yes, there were garbage cans.

Quite frankly as a lady alone I was taken aback by the conditions of this office’s area. SCARED, would be a better description. The town is really lovely in itself with beautiful gardens, nice houses and cottages and shops, but this doctor’s office looked out of place.

So I went in and found the inside, as equally shabby and DIRTY as the exterior!! And CROWDED!! Oh my gosh!

After a 5 and half hour wait and a brief closing while the staff ate lunch, I finally saw the young doctor who gave the ears a quick look, said I had an ear infection and prescribed the very antibiotic that I had just indicated, that I was VERY allegeric to… OOPS… I explained it again and he then wrote the right one. Whew. Glad I caught that one.

Now, I did not have to pay that Doctor… BIG WHOOP… the antibiotic prescribed to me costs very little in the USA. However,it costs BIG bucks there. In fact,it cost me about what I would have paid for a visit to my doctor in the USA and a bottle of the cheap( in the USA) medicine it took to cure me.

NAW, I was NOT impressed with their system and would NOT wish it on anybody but Obama and his co-horts!! They deserve that kinda’ “care”. Yes, they CAN have it… all they want of it!!

Just not me and mine… we do not want it.

Sewsalot on August 25, 2009 at 5:52 pm

Debbie,
You are absolutely correct in saying that the British – government run – health care is a complete disaster. I have used health care systems in Canada, the US and the UK and the UK is by far the worst health care system I have seen. Even my friends from other European countries which have socialized medicine cannot get over the disaster that is the NHS.
You are not ‘scaremongering’ you are backing up your beliefs with facts and examples. Keep speaking out.

SquareMileWife on August 25, 2009 at 6:15 pm

I am not defending “Obamacare”, BB. I have no idea how Obamacare will work. I’m English, and a lifelong (almost 46 years) user of the NHS.

I was not defending the case in the main story. I WAS saying that this was NOT the norm – certainly not in my experience or that of my family, many of whom owe our lives to the NHS. I was wondering where Debbie got her “government mandated ‘end of life’ counseling” from and that was what I mean by her scaremongering. I assure you we have no such thing.

Last September, my father collapsed at home and had to be admitted as an emergency to hospital where it was discovered that he required a triple heart bypass. He had it, was taken care of and was home three weeks later with a full programme of follow-up care. While in the hospital he made friends with a 90 year-old gentleman called George. George was every ill indeed and somewhat frail. However, George received a quality of care every bit as good as everyone else on that ward. And it was a quality that was second to none, as I witnessed on my daily visits. To listen to some of the tales of terror here, I’m amazed that I’ve lived to almost-46, never mind my father’s 70. We are ONLY here because of the NHS. I would have died without it. Both of my parents would have died without it. My younger daughter would have died without it.

I’ve been able, through work, to benefit from a choice between private care and NHS. Hand on heart, and utterly honestly, I’d choose the NHS every time. I can’t speak more plainly than that because, in my family’s experience (not in some evil nebulous maybe-future), it works, and it works DAMN well indeed.

Alison on August 25, 2009 at 6:46 pm

“Doctors there were either fresh out of medical school who practiced on you or incompetent doctors who couldn’t hack it in a private practice.”

My sister in law just became the head of endocrinology at a VA and I can tell you she is neither fresh out of med school nor unable to hack it in private practice. She did her residency at Beth Israel (a Harvard Program) where she was a star and her fellowship at another Ivy League program, where she was again a star.

TaxMan on August 25, 2009 at 6:49 pm

http://docs.house.gov/gopleader/House-Democrats-Health-Plan.pdf

I pity US!

goldenmike4393 on August 25, 2009 at 6:55 pm

A very interesting story indeed. Linking over.

-Pat

Pat on August 25, 2009 at 7:31 pm

To sewsalot

I’m sorry you had such a horrendous experience. It’s hard to comment on the surgery since I don’t know where it was. I can only think that you must have turned up on an “open clinic” day where appointments weren’t necessary. However, as to prescriptions:

I don’t know how much your doctors charge per visit, but private doctors cost a LOT over here and I doubt you were charged that sort of fee. I certainly hope not anyway since I’d hate to think that the pharmacy took advantage of you being a visitor. There are constant calls for a total abolition of prescription charges – indeed, in Wales this has now been implemented. However, other than that the charges are means tested to a degree. Children under 16 (or 19 if they’re still in full time education) are exempt from all prescription charges, as are those over 60. People who are unable to work can also, depending on the circumstances, have free prescriptions as can those (like me) who take medication for certain qualifying chronic conditions.

As for the surgery premises – again, I apologise. The worst thing if you are unwell is to have to sit in places like that. I know, I’ve done it (although not recently and never regularly, thankfully). The surgery premises is chosen and maintained by the individual doctor, however, not by the NHS. GPs – while they are governed by the NHS – set up their own practices/groups and surgeries. I’m not sure if/how they are supported in this since I don’t work in the health field and never have.

Like I said, and have replied on previous posts of Debbie’s with regards to healthcare, I’m not defending this so-called “Obamacare” since I know nothing about it. I AM defending socialised medicine as it is performed over here. No, it’s not perfect. No system, unfortunately, is. But for the horror stories I hear about ours, I can very possibly come back with another about your own system. I am simply loathe to play healthcare tennis with individual cases. But I have many reasons to be grateful for our system and am extremely glad it’s here. 🙂

Alison on August 25, 2009 at 7:32 pm

It is so much fun:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/2646244/NHS-drugs-body-Nice-reviews-drug-funding.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2537179/NHS-drugs-body-Nice-bullied-ignored-and-patronised-patients-say-charities.html

Do you feel the love yet:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_National_Health_Service

Sorrow01 on August 25, 2009 at 8:00 pm

This not an advertisement against universal health care, but rather an advertisement against tort reform. Do you conservatives really want to limit how much a person can sue for damages in a situation like this or worse than the above?

Norman Blitzer on August 25, 2009 at 11:13 pm

Yes, Norman, of course we want to limit the damages in cases like that. The insurance company shouldn’t be paying a massive jackpot award to the victim and passing the cost on to the rest of us.

Instead, the victim should be recompensed for damages including pain and suffering, and the doctor should be canned and banned from practicing.

To conservatives it is all about freedom and responsibility. Is it really that difficult to understand?

Roland on August 25, 2009 at 11:25 pm

[To conservatives it is all about freedom and responsibility. Is it really that difficult to understand?

Roland on August 25, 2009 at 11:25 pm]

It is when you want the government out of one area (health care) and stick its nose in another (tort reform-malpractice suits). It’s a contradiction and you guys can’t have it both ways. Understand?

Norman Blitzer on August 26, 2009 at 12:24 am

@ Sorrow01

I don’t understand your vitriol being directed at me. However, two year-old newspaper reports (and the Telegraph is hardly impartial), plus a reference to a Wikipedia page… ugh. Do you know that school children are strongly advised to avoid Wikipedia like the plague because it is notoriously unreliable?

MRSA is also a very serious problem in the US health system. We don’t have a monopoly on it. In fact, there have been years when it’s been responsible for more deaths in the US than AIDS. This is chiefly caused by bacteria developing an immunity to antibacterial treatments, which is known to happen.

I don’t recall being sarcastic or even remotely confrontational with you – my apologies if you feel that my NHS life experience is anathema to your sensitivities. I have never condemned anyone else’s opinions or feelings. I have merely tried to question dubious comments and thoughts. As far as I’m concerned that’s not a crime in either of our countries.

Alison on August 26, 2009 at 12:30 am

Health care is one of the most complex issues that can’t be answered so easily by the left or the right. I don’t think government health is the solution but HMOs aren’t the nicest people on earth either. I am self-employed and do contract work, consequently I purchase my own health care.

One thing that screwed U.S. health care was free trade. Remember, prior to the early 1990s most people who worked had health care from their employers. As good paying jobs left the demand for quality employees waned. Manufacturing jobs, steel mills, and other factory jobs were gone. Good or bad unions got their workers health care. Now these people can’t get those good health care benefits and now are uninsured. Also illegal aliens should not get government health care. They should only get certain emergency services. Getting a wart on their ass shouldn’t be an ER visit. California has shut down over 100 ERs because of illegals. So free trade and the open borders has destroyed health care in California. Again all a by-product of the consequences of runaway corporate lobbying. Ship jobs to third world and then allow third world illegals to do the service jobs to undermine the Ameican labor market. Getting screwed at both ends. So conservatives and Republicans better wake up to the fact that corporations undermining your quality of life and national sovereignty is not what freedom is about. I think Ron Paul has it right on this. Remember how he was laughed at in the debate. Seems he was spot on about this. Free-traders wished it, got it and should own it.

For me it wouldn’t matter one way or the other but we leave in a country where we have a moral imperative to help those that are ill and dying. Now as we cross that bridge you can’t wish these people away and they will end up in an emergency room. Also with infectious diseases, not treating them also becomes our problem sooner or later.

As hospitals and doctors who takes on the Hippocratic oath, we can’t have our cake and eat it to. We also don’t want doctors to weigh the cost of service on whether service should be rendered. We don’t want death panels and denial of service however the bill must be payed. So the paradox of the uninsured will appear with or without Obamacare or HMOs or the combination of both. Also HMOs are in the business of making money and let’s be real if they don’t turn a profit they will DUMP you as quickly as they can the make that balance sheet go in the black. Their loyalty to your health care is only as loyal to turning a profit. However we live in a free country and people should be able to contract or service with an entity as they see wish. Government shouldn’t stop private health care under any circumstances.

I believe taxpayers should get vouchers for their health care. It would give the patient choices and if HMOs accept vouchers it must be required to accept a certain amount of high risk patients. Competition in the market and risk spread around. Less government involvement.

CaliforniaScreaming on August 26, 2009 at 12:36 am

Norman, there is no contradiction in wanting reasonable, limited regulation of both the medical care industry and the lawyers. Understand?

Roland on August 26, 2009 at 12:47 am

Alison = Obama worker. I recognize you from the other message board, “Alison”. You should rotate your fake name more often 😉

DS_ROCKS! on August 26, 2009 at 7:06 am

Sadly, Mr. Wattson is only one of thousands of victims of socialized medicine in Britain. I read the Brit rags every day, and nearly every day is another appalling story.
It’s the same in Canada.
My 19 month-old niece was just diagnosed with Stage IV Favorable Neuroblastoma. While that is devastating, the upside is that she is here in the USA. The mass was discovered on August 13th, she was admitted to Mott Children’s Hospital in Ann Arbor on August 14th for tests, and will begin to undergo treatment on August 28th.
My mother’s family is in Canada. Know how the same process works there?
Time between detecting the mass and testing: 3-6 weeks.
Time from test results to seeing doctor for diagnosis: 3-6 weeks.
Time to wait before treatment begins: 6 weeks to 6 months.
I’m not being flippant or trying to use my niece as a standard-bearer. I’m just eternally grateful that if she had to get sick, she did it in a country with outstanding health care.
If you are religious, please pray for her. She’s in for a rough road beginning Friday.

Michelle on August 26, 2009 at 8:02 am

Just wondering… how many of the doctors in the govt. service are “native born and educated”?

Phreak on August 26, 2009 at 9:03 am

It really is about human freedom. Do you want such people to take your life in their hands when they know next to nothing about you? That’s why Obamacare is wrong on principle even if it could be truly had for free. That’s too much to give up and the price is too high.

NormanF on August 26, 2009 at 2:25 pm

[Norman, there is no contradiction in wanting Norman, there is no contradiction in wanting reasonable, limited regulation of both the medical care industry and the lawyers. Understand?
Roland on August 26, 2009 at 12:47 am]

If want people to choose their own health care then let the people sue for what they want in damages in a malpractice suit and let the people via juries award the appropriate settlement.

And I’m glad you want “limited regulation”, at least I got through your thick skull a bit Roland.

Norman Blitzer on August 26, 2009 at 6:12 pm

Try military health care, they are government run and completely incompetent. You are also not allowed to sue nor is there any type of disciplinary action against these butchers when they cut off the wrong leg, misdiagnose you when you have cancer or leave a towel in your abdomen during surgery. Just read about the multitude of cases of gross negligence with regards to soldier’s health care. It’s disgusting and no compensation either. Glad I’m out and don’t have to deal with their “health care” anymore.

CJ on August 27, 2009 at 6:41 pm

Norman, I have always wanted limited and intelligent property rights protecting regulation (protecting the property of both the producers and consumers) of the medical care industry and the medical insurance industry and the legal profession. Of all business.

Is your thinking I did not favor such regulation part of an extreme way you have of thinking about business? Anyone who opposes Obamacare and total government domination of our economy in general must favor no-holds-barred financial anarchy?

Roland on August 27, 2009 at 7:01 pm