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July 30, 2012, - 3:04 pm

Romney “Jerusalem is Israel’s Capitol” BS Echoes Candidates Clinton, Both Bushes, Obama; Talk is Cheap; The Carney Video

By Debbie Schlussel

For the past several days, many readers and friends have sent me two related items that they don’t seem to understand quite well. The first is the video of two pro-Israel White House press corps members who demand that White House/Obama spokesman Jake Carney tell them what the capital of Israel is. And he predictably squirms, refusing to answer. People insist to me that this is stark evidence that the anti-Israel Obama hates Israel. Well, I already know he’s anti-Israel. But that video is a joke. Where were these two apparently pro-Israel reporters for the first eight of the last 11.5 years, when President Bush wouldn’t recognize Jerusalem as Israel’s capital, refusing to move the U.S. Embassy there from Tel Aviv? Did they prefer not to embarrass President Bush and Dana Perino? Probably. ‘Cuz I guarantee you, they weren’t about to disappoint their Arab and Muslim friends and suddenly recognize Jerusalem as Israel’s capital, something he never ever did for eight years in office. In fact, people have a short memory. The Bush administration went to war against American Jews born in Jerusalem who wanted their passports and other American documents to reflect their birthplace (and/or place of death on a death certificate) as “Jerusalem, ISRAEL,” expunging that from passports issued at the U.S. Embassy in Tel Aviv. Bush fought this all the way up the Court system with Obama picking up the case when he took the White House and taking the case to the Supreme Court. If you said nothing about Bush policy on Israel for 8 years, you are a fraud and a hypocrite for focusing on Jake Carney’s statements now. And Romney won’t be any different.

You think Romney’s position on Israel will be different? Only if you’re a gullible moron and believe his campaign speech in Jerusalem yesterday about Jerusalem being Israel’s capital and how the U.S. Embassy should be there. Hey, guess who else visited Israel when running for Prez and said they’d move the U.S. Embassy in Israel to Jerusalem? Both Bushes, Clinton (who even absurdly promised the “first kosher kitchen in the White House”–which no one asked for or needs), and Obama. And guess what? They all lied. Romney is no different. I’ll wait to see, if Romney reaches the White House, whether those same reporters will dare ask his spokesliar (probably Hezbollah supporter Dan Senor, who orchestrated Romney’s Israel visit, wrote his speech yesterday, and got rich off his partnership with Chris Heinz of the Heinz-Kerry-Tides-Foundation gang) the same question. I guarantee you Romney won’t recognize Jerusalem as Israel’s capital in the White House, and no one is moving the Embassy there any time in our lifetimes. Heck, when my former boss then-Congressman Phil Crane finally got his bill–to defund the State Department unless they moved the U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem–to the Floor of the House, AIPAC (the fraudulent “pro”-Israel lobby) was calling all of his colleagues, demanding they vote against it.

And Romney is already backing down from his campaign people’s statements in Israel that he’d support Israel’s right to strike Iran. Instead, he told ABC News’ David Muir in a live interview that he supports sanctions and diplomacy. ‘Cuz, hey, Bush and Obama never tried those things for the last 11.5 years. And it’s working soooo gosh-darn well, ain’t it? Mitt Romney isn’t even President yet, and he’s doing enough Flip-Flopneys to make anyone actually paying attention dizzy. He flip-flop-flipped on his initially correct statement that the Brits weren’t ready for the Olympics. The next day, he said they are ready. And, in Israel, he told ABC News’ Muir that he stood by his original statement. This is a preview of the Obama-esque/Massachusetts Mitt 180s we’ll see plenty of in the White House. Watch the Carney video and tell me why you didn’t have a problem with this as Bush policy for 8 years, and whether you are actually dumb enough to believe Romney will finally reverse this decades-old obnoxious U.S. policy of not recognizing Jerusalem as Israel’s capital. If you think he will, I have some land to sell you. . . in Gazastan. And watch Romney’s flip-flop/backtrack on Iran, above. He’s also backtracking from his comments that Israel’s culture allowed the country to be more successful than the Palestinians, with aides now saying Romney “was misunderstood.” Oy, gevalt. Next, he’ll back track from comments that humans go to the bathroom.

Just remember: neither Romney nor Obama will stop calling for a Palestinian State. Neither will stop attacking Jews for living where they want in Jerusalem and its suburbs, calling them “settlers.” Neither will get tougher on Iran. Neither will reverse the warm embrace of the Muslim Brotherhood or cancel CIA advisers to the Brotherhood rebels in Syria or billions in U.S. aid to the Brotherhood in Egypt. Neither will get tough on Islamic aliens with terrorist ties seeking entry and/or citizenship in the U.S. after having been here illegally.

Either way, in terms of the Middle East, we’re screwed. And Muslims and their extreme goals are sitting pretty.

Rest assured, no matter who wins the election in November, he will have a cornucopia of Arab Sheikhs lining up to finance and build his Presidential library and pay millions for speeches in retirement.

Tags: capital, David Muir, Iran, Israel, Jerusalem, Mitt Romney, Romney, Romney on Iran, Romney on Jerusalem, video

153 Responses

« Newer Comments

Completely agree – all he was doing was angling for Jew’s who base their votes on sound bites. Romney will say whatever to whomever to win. Jews, Blacks, etc…..

Nothing he says can be taken as true – at least with Obama we know who he is.

George A. on July 30, 2012 at 3:17 pm

The speech was not addressed to American Jews, who are liberal, anti-Israel and the bulk of whom will vote again for the anti-Israel Obama in November.

It was addressed to evangelical Christians, who are pro-Israel. The reason Americans support the Jewish State has nothing do with the presence of Jews here – just the exact opposite.

Its their votes – not the Jewish vote – Romney is trying to pick up in November.

NF: As you know, I made this exact point on this site on Thursday. Makes no difference though. He lied. He will NOT move the embassy. Ever. But the Evangelicals will fall for it. As they did with George W. Bush. DS

NormanF on July 30, 2012 at 3:32 pm

Debbie,

It is a lie about the US Embassy move but not about Jerusalem – and all the same the fact our presidential candidates have to affirm it publicly tells us more about the sentiment of the American people – than it does about them and why they say it in the first place.

Would any one else in the world is not American acknowledge the connection of the Jewish people to Jerusalem? Of course not and this is a particular instance of American Exceptionalism.

Related to this, Lori Lowenthal Marcus has written North America’s Jewish Federations have dropped Zionism from their official activities agenda. Pro-Israel Jews – such as they are should therefore think twice about supporting their work.

NormanF on July 30, 2012 at 3:53 pm

Norman,

Evangelical support of Israel is overrated. If they put anywhere near the amount of energy in support of Israel that they do against abortion and gay marriage,maybe there’d be no “roadmap”,Oslo,etc.

“Conservatives” who sellout Israel still get their support,despite minor “complaints” from evangelicals.

Also,they’ve been mostly silent when anti-Semites on the right such as Pat Buchanan blast Israel and Jews, despite the fact that Buchanan has criticized evangelicals for supporting Israel.

You have to question their feelings for Jews when their “rabbi” is none other than self-hating Jewish anti-Semite Daniel Lapin.

Scott on July 30, 2012 at 4:49 pm

Israeli policies were decisions taken by Israeli leaders – and whether you think they’re good or bad at least they were made in Israel’s interests.

Evangelical Christians are not the problem. Its no exaggeration to say the worst enemies of Israel are liberal American Jews who tango with Muslims and call upon Israel to implement the suicidal so-called two state solution.

American Christians don’t get everything right but they exemplify why this country is different from the rest of the world.

For all its shortcomings, I’ll take America over the rest of the world any day.

NormanF on July 30, 2012 at 4:57 pm

Norman,

If you’re going to respond to my post, then respond to the points I made.

I didn’t say evangelicals are the “problem”,I said their support for Israel is overrated.

How much effort and/or how effective were the evangelicals at stopping things like Oslo,Bush’s roadmap,land-for-peace,Muslim influence in the Republican party,anti-Israel/anti-Semitism on the right,etc?

Israeli leader’s policies are in Israel’s interest? Are you kidding?

Israel’s been stuck with poor leadership for sure,but there can be no question that many bad policies are the result of intense US pressure, both public and even more pressure behind the scenes.

Scott on July 30, 2012 at 5:26 pm

American Christians have some influence but that doesn’t mean things always go their way. Israel is a good case in point.

Oslo was entirely an initiative of Israel’s Labor Party leaders. It was a disaster but that is beside the point – Israel implemented it without US participation or input. That was an Israeli decision and regardless of what I think about it, Israelis had the right to see if peace with the Arabs was attainable.

We know different today. And even though Evangelical Christians can’t change everything about American policy, they have prevented America from abandoning Israel altogether like the rest of the West has done.

NormanF on July 30, 2012 at 5:42 pm

“Oslo was entirely an initiative of Israel’s Labor Party leaders. It was a disaster but that is beside the point – Israel implemented it without US participation or input. That was an Israeli decision and regardless of what I think about it, Israelis had the right to see if peace with the Arabs was attainable.

We know different today.”

Norman, Oslo had everything to do with internal Israeli political machinations and nothing to do with the interests of the average Israeli. Nor do Israel’s political elites “know different today.” Oslo utterly failed, then Sharon gave us the “Disengagement.” The reason Israel’s leaders continue on this failed course is that they care only about power and their perks. Israel’s political system–which is NOT a democratic republic–allows them to make deals and ignore the public.

The public could force change, but Israelis kvetch a lot and do nothing. Both the national religious and Haredi publics are controlled by their “rabbis” (e.g., the Lithuanian moneybags Eliashiv and the Sephardic moneybags Shades Yosef). And frankly, the morals of both groups reflect their rebbes.

The Russians are willing to fight, but they are fatalistic and will never lead.

This is why I am not moved by Debbie’s discussion of how bad X, Y, and Z are for Israel. Of course they are! But they are almost irrelevant. In Israel, all policy is determined by politics, and all politics is local.

skzion on July 30, 2012 at 9:27 pm

Scott,

Exactly!!

Alan

A Reader on July 30, 2012 at 9:06 pm

A Loser, go away.

skzion on July 30, 2012 at 9:28 pm

I don’t think that the Evangelicals are falling for anything. I try to read their literature and, more important, watch what they actually do when I have the opportunity, and they recognize that this is not a Democrat or Republican issue (running much deeper than that) and that talk is, indeed cheap. Best of all, they expend considerable resources on educating the public about Israel and Jerusalem, particularly young people, such as those in college.

If the Leftist/Liberal Jewish community would demonstrate the same fortitude and unity as the Evangelical groups on Israel, then I believe that some genuine progress could actually be made. Just as Civil Rights did not truly come about in the U.S. until the various groups became united to support that cause, the splintering in the Jewish community will only encourage the cheap talk on Israel and Jerusalem, while the real underlying actions demonstrate more of an anti-Israel policy.

Although talk is cheap, you can tell that it isn’t even serious talk in Washington or among candidates because we already know that Obama adheres to the existing U.S. Department policy that DOES NOT recognize Jersusalem as Israel’s capital, and Romney hasn’t remotely suggested that he would even attempt to make such a change to the correct policy.

As I’ve previously pointed out, there was a U.S. Supreme Court case, ZIVOTOFSKY, BY HIS PARENTS AND GUARDIANS, ZIVOTOFSKY ET UX. v. CLINTON, SECRETARY OF STATE, that attempted to merely offer U.S. citizens the RIGHT to identify Jerusalem as the capital of Israel–for those who were born in Jerusalem. Obama, Clinton, and the U.S. State Department fought AGAINST that right through to the bitter end, spending untold amounts of taxpayer dollars in the pursuit. Here is the opinion in that case. http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/11pdf/10-699.pdf

In the above case, the Supreme Court ordered a lower court to decide whether Congress has the authority to allow Americans born in Jerusalem to claim Israel as their birthplace on their passports.

R: The Zivotofsky case is exactly the case I referenced in one of the links in this post, as I wrote about it years ago on this site. But the case was originally, ZIVOTOFSKY V. RICE, SECRETARY OF STATE, as the Bush Administration initiated the policy of refusing to identify Jerusalem, ISRAEL as the birthplace and place of death on various documents it issued US citizens in Israel. DS

Ralph Adamo on July 30, 2012 at 5:20 pm

The American policy on Jerusalem is everything sound policy on the city should not be.

I don’t expect it to ever change because despite the fact Jerusalem has been a Jewish-majority city since the middle of the 19th Century, there are more Arabs than Jews in the Middle East and no American Administration is going to offend them.

That’s the bottom line – whether its Obama, Romney or some future President.

NormanF on July 30, 2012 at 5:34 pm

Thanks for that important information, Debbie. Just goes to show that Obama/Hillary Clinton isn’t all that different from Bush/Rice. I think we’d need someone like Mike Pence before the policy toward Israel will change.

If the U.S. Government doesn’t recognize Jerusalem as Israel’s capital, at least Apple Computer does. I have the latest Apple iPhone and I used the verbal command feature that allows you to simply ask a question, and Siri does the research. Here were my questions and the answers I received:

1. Who was the 23rd Vice President of the United States? Siri answered: Hubert Humphrey.

2. What is the square root of 7,424? Siri answered: 86.1684….

3. What is the capital of Israel? Siri answered: Jerusalem, population 773,000.

At least Siri speaks the truth.

Ralph Adamo on July 31, 2012 at 4:21 pm

Thanks, Debbie, absolutely correct. I am so sick of these Americans in Israel insisting they have to vote for this guy. As I’ve posted before, pick a country and support it. Can’t sit on this fence, sad to say. A vote for Romney is a vote against Israel. I still care about America because we have family there and we’re worried but we have no intention of participating in this farce called the electoral process while there are only two Parties which are really two sides of the same coin. When people there realize they have to do more than get on blogs and make noise, maybe something will happen.

Maybe other people will “get religion” about the big Conservative deception. What is your opinion of Justice Scalia saying the Second Amendment is not definitive on gun rights and that it could be changed?

I: Are you on crack? That moronic, know-nothing, loon Scamela promoted and bought Romney’s Embassy crap hook, line, and sinker, having orgasms over it (and declaring he’s gonna move the embassy–he will NOT), b/c she’s in the tank for him and has no brain or knowledge of history. WAKE. UP. And stop reading that lying hag who engaged in car loan frauds scams, paying off Muslim buyers and having two murders in her wake. DS

Italkit on July 30, 2012 at 3:21 pm

Italkit, do you seriously believe that Israel’s political system is anything but a fraud? America’s is pristine compared to Israel’s.

skzion on July 30, 2012 at 9:33 pm

You know I don’t, Skzion. But if people insist on being involved in politics and participating in the political system, they have to pick a country and work on that country’s future. I think all these Jews who criticize Israel’s politicos need to make aliya and work to fix it.

Italkit on July 31, 2012 at 2:26 am

Italkit, you wrote “but we have no intention of participating in this farce called the electoral process while there are only two Parties which are really two sides of the same coin.”

So, you think an electoral system with only two parties is a farce and tell us that you will not participate in such a system. This also implies a strong preference for a multiparty system like Israel’s, which is not a farce. The idea of “picking a country and working on it” was certainly not in your original comment.

As for aliyah . . . Lol! I have no intention of joining you in your self-made Auschwitz.

skzion on July 31, 2012 at 10:19 am

Debbie, you do not dictate whom I read. I read everyone and try to form an opinion issue by issue. I asked you to simply delete that part of the post. Yes, she is swooning over Romney which is as good an excuse not to support him as any, but I thought it was interesting she decided to denounce so many of the “Conservative” bloggers you’ve already called out and she was still swooning over. I was just wondering what her agenda in that is but maybe the side effect is that others will wake up as a result.
BTW, that rag in Israel you hate is the only one reporting that Romney is in favor of Two States. Big surprise considering Baker is his FP guru.

Italkit on July 31, 2012 at 2:24 am

Having said that about issues, I have come to believe that the tendency is to look at the trees and not the forest. It’s not just about Obama care or support of Israel, it’s what those are symptoms of and looking at the disease to see if there is an uninfected candidate. So far, all I see is rampant contagion. The ISSUE is that there is no one worthy of the PEOPLE’S TRUST and you shouldn’t give it.

Italkit on July 31, 2012 at 2:29 am

I see this attitude in the West being reversed once Israel is an energy supergiant.

If the West is going to change how it views the Jewish people, its because the Jews have a muscular presence at the table.

For now, weighed between sympathy for Israel and Arab oil and petrodollars – its no contest.

I agree with you the thing that has always talked loudest in this world is money and it buys a lot of influence in high places. And the Arabs have plenty of it and for now the Jews have none.

Mitt Happens’ speech is much BS fertilizer. What does he supposed to have said have to do with the price of tea in China? It well meant but it doesn’t make a real difference. 99% of the American people and Congress still want the US Embassy to be moved to Jerusalem. But a President Romney (or any other President) is never going to move it there.

Political talk is cheap. Let’s wait for two things: IF Romney gets elected AND he keeps his promise. I’m not having any expectations in either regard as far as next year goes and for the years to come.

NormanF on July 30, 2012 at 3:27 pm

it’s called the lesser of two evils….by slamming Romney DS tacitly gives BHO her blessing for another 4 years…is Romney an idiot? yes…more so than Bush? no… is IQ is one tortilla above GWB’s plus he doesn’t hate Israel as Obama who called the Jewish land a by product of the holocaust…
Bottom line is, you won’t find a Republican candidate that will support Israel 100% and fight jihadists 100%, at least not one that can get elected… So we have to live with the lesser of 2 evils, and Obama is a HUGE evil to Israel. Expect the deligitimization of Israel to jump 1000x courtesy of the white house if Obama is re-elected…. chose wisely Americans or Israel will be doomed…

Y: Only morons say that full information is a “tacit blessing” for Obama. Here’s a tip: his BS in Jerusalem is just that: BS. And he needs to be called on it, just as I called Obama’s BS for the last 6 years–and Bush’s for 8 years–and was attacked for it by denying ignoramuses like you. The Bottom Line is that the Embassy talk is and always has been BS. Those who attacked the Carney video were nowhere to be seen for 8 years of Bush anti-Israel, anti-Jerusalem crap. Where were you then? Huh? Since you said nothing then, you gave the tacit blessing to that, NOT me. DS

Yossi on July 30, 2012 at 3:30 pm

Hey Yossi, so Debbie’s responsibility is to hide key facts and reasoning in order to elect Mittens? No, that’s what political hacks do.

Oh, and Yossi, Israel is probably doomed because of … Israelis.

skzion on July 30, 2012 at 9:38 pm

Yossi,

Romney’s only principle is to say and do whatever will get him elected. It doesn’t mean he sincerely means it. Only G-d knows what truly in the human heart. The rest of us have to judge a man by his deeds.

As for the difference between the two candidates on Israel, its symbolic at best. The same policy that has been pursued by every American Administration since Truman will continue under Romney. Any one who thinks an American President will get an epiphany on Jerusalem in office is smoking weed.

The only real reason as Debbie would say would for supporting Romney over Obama is because he wants to get re-elected. A pro-Israel policy isn’t one of them.

NormanF on July 30, 2012 at 3:41 pm

I disagree. I think Romney is an honorable man and I take him at his word. Do, or did any of you take Obambi, Bush, Clinton (Both Mr. & Mrs) at their word? Mrs. Clinton is an anti-semite (Just ask Morris) and is busily undermining the United States at every opportunity while busily pushing and funding the muslim brotherhood. Should Romney be elected to replace the current occupant of public housing at 1600, he would have an opportunity to appoint what I call the “Dynamic Duo……John Bolton as Secretary of State and as Ambassador to the U.N. wait for it…….Michelle Bachmann. Here are two that tell it like it is. If people don’t like it, too bad. Bachmann, Gohmert, etc., want Mrs. Clintons “Aide,” Mrs Anthony Weiner investigated for known sympathies and contacts with practicioners of the “Religion of peace.” For this Bachmann is villified by the traitor McCain, Coburn and others. Naturally, the state run media was put in a tizzy. Good. Wake up America, before it is too late.

Don’t forget. Wednesday is “Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day.” A day to drive a stake into the heart of evil in this country by “Eating mor Chikin.”

herbster on July 30, 2012 at 3:44 pm

I like John Bolton – I think highly of him but there is no guarantee he’ll be Secretary Of State in office.

We’ll probably get another liberal Republican – like Colin Powell or Condi Clueless at State and they will continue the Obamoid anti-Israel policies. Under a President Romney, I think that’s a far more likely outcome.

You know the old saying, “the more things change…” Well it applies equally in full measure to the presidential election season here. Don’t count on your chickens to hatch and bring about a change in American policy towards Israel – which is the only thing that is truly worthwhile.

Every one else is saying Romney is the greatest thing since Bush. But the people gushing all over him like Scamela are dunces, in the tank for him – and as Debbie would say they are easily taken advantage of and will be exposed as the fools they are.

Romney gave a great speech – so what? All politicians do and in the long course of time they are not by what we measure them. As Ronald Reagan said, “I’ve often noticed the world’s second-oldest profession bears a striking resemblance to the world’s oldest profession.” Voters are hustled like clients in th campaign season and are offered promises of orgasms to come. The only difference between prostitutes and politicians is a real prostitute actually delivers them.

Romney is the very antithesis of the principled politician and they are an exceedingly rare political animal.

NormanF on July 30, 2012 at 4:08 pm

Secretary of State goes to James Baker. He’s in position as Foreign Policy advisor. Condi wouldn’t settle for it again, she want’s VP and Kissinger is too old. Romney is trying to give the impression he’s looking for new blood, e.g. Rubio but in the end, he’ll settle for the old, retreaded hacks because that who is masters at the CFR want.

Italkit on July 31, 2012 at 2:34 am

herbster, on what factual basis do you believe Mittens is honorable?

skzion on July 30, 2012 at 9:40 pm

BHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

I tend to agree with you skzion 🙂

As Goes... on July 31, 2012 at 1:32 pm

Anti-semite Mel Gibson’s movie The Passion of the Christ – back in the days of Jesus 2012 years ago in Jerusalem – in the movie ONLY people there were Jews and Romans.

Yes Romney now tat he spoke out if elected will move the US embasy to Jerusalem. Any Jew that votes for Obama is a traitor.

AND don’t believe these current polls saying Obama still will get the majority of the Jewish vote. People lie to polls, polls are manipulated, etc.

Just remember Antony Weiner’s seat that Dems held for near 90 years in a Jewish area. Dems lost because of Obama – Jewish vote there disappeared for Hussein

bob on July 30, 2012 at 3:45 pm

NO Weiner lost because he has a Muslim wife and because it is still a Jewish area and people were disgusted with both his marriage and the fact that he tweeted disgusting pics of himself. Liberal Jew does not equal Sexual Degenerate. That’s a stereotype. The people in that district voted FOR someone they believed not against anyone except the less suitable candidate. It had nothing to do with Obama. Hopefully, however, they will see that voting Republican has other benefits. And BTW the guy who won, forget his name is also Jewish.

Italkit on July 31, 2012 at 9:53 am

So Debbie, what are you suggesting? Are you suggesting that we vote for Obama and endure another four years of an administration that we know is most definitely not a friend of Israel (hell, his administration is not even a friend to the US), or are you suggesting that we hold our noses and vote for Romney, a guy who is admittedly somewhat of an empty suit who will say anything depending upon which way the wind is blowing? I simply can’t imagine another four years of Obama. His policies are certainly not making this country better and, most importantly, he’s in way over his head. He is completely unqualified to run the US. As an aside, it’s truly shameful that a great country such as the US, with so many brilliant people who live here, and we have to pick one of these two clowns to be our President.

J: I’m suggesting no such thing (voting for Obama). I just believe in full information, not moronic gushing and/or attacks over BS. They are both schmucks. I will probably vote for that jerk, Flip Flopneycare, but he’s a piece of crap and fraud, and he will be exactly the same on the Middle East as Obama. DS

Jeff on July 30, 2012 at 3:45 pm

Debbie is saying verify, then trust.

A lot of people want to take Romney at his word. To be fair, unlike Obama he did spend part of his life in business before he became a politician. I have no doubt he has considerable talents. But he won’t judged on his campaign rhetoric, he’ll be judged on his track record and take his promises for what they are.

His stand on Israel aside, that aspect of his life commends him to running this country. In a first term, he’ll be constrained by the need to seek re-election.

What we can be sure of a re-elected Obama would ensure America’s continued decline. The fact we have to settle for the lesser of two evils tells us that we have no real reason to hope for a change of course in America even if we do get a GOP President and a GOP Congress like we did under the second President Bush in office.

We can hope for the best but that’s all we have for now.

NormanF on July 30, 2012 at 4:20 pm

http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=279421

bob on July 30, 2012 at 3:53 pm

One of the things I finding lacking in DS’s blog is a sense of trade offs. Reading Debbie, one would never guess that the US moving its embassy to Jerusalem risks triggering a enormous reaction from Arab capitals.

On the other hand, the benefit to Israel of moving our embassy would, I think, be marginal. There’s probably a well considered reason why AIPAC tried to put the kibosh to Rep. Crane’s effort to finally move the embassy. f I understand the situation, US law does require us to move our embassy to Jerusalem, but the President has the authority to delay the move, an option the occupant of the Oval Office has exercised as often as required to keep the embassy in Tel Aviv.

Diplomacy is the art of the possible within a set of constraints. Moving our embassy- which the US should do based on its own strategic interests, not to curry favor with the Jewish vote- is simply not worth the problems it would entail. Unfortunately, DS gives her readers no sense of that.

Larry S. on July 30, 2012 at 3:56 pm

Larry, how are Moe and Curly? Diplomacy has been tried in the Middle East for decades. Have you been under a rock since 1948? Also, what has not recognizing Jerusalem as Israel’s capitol gotten the United States? Your art of the possible is a handful of sand. In fact, it has allowed the Palestinians and other Muslim groups to harbor the perhaps not unfounded hope that the United States in the end will not defend Israel’s right to exist. This “hope” lies behind much Jihadi activity, or is used as one of the justifications for it. How exactly is that in the American interest? Unless, you perhaps mean the American interest is the venal interests of former presidents getting libarary donations and speaking fees for boilerplate address from those lovely Gulf Arab regimes? Stiring up jihadists and facilitating the corruption of various political leaders seems to indicate that not recognizing Jerusalem as the capital of Israel has been worse than useless in terms of placating the Muslim world. Giving in to Muslim demands leads to their escalation. We have even seen this at the Olympics this year. The women’s volleyball team had to burka lite up, which led to demands from a Saudi woman that she be allowed to wear a hijab while engaged in Judo wrestling. Islam does not keep to itself, but always attempts to make what it can around it Sharia compliant. Your beliefs or lack of them is immaterial. Their demands are all that matter.

Worry01 on July 30, 2012 at 4:28 pm

Worry, you always fill between lines quite nicely. Thank you.

As for Larry Fine…Larry, you like many of your ilk, waste time by trying to spotlight the points that go without saying. We know the points already that you think should be known or are supposedly “left out” by DS. DUH!

Skunky on July 30, 2012 at 6:22 pm

Thanks. I just get tired of deep thoughts that are about as original as a Newsweek OpEd. The best diplomacy would be to cut off assistance to the Palestinians from the U.S. They have done nothing to warrant it. Let their Muslim bretheren make up the difference.

Worry on July 31, 2012 at 2:35 am

Larry – again support for Israel in America has to do with its identification with the Bible and its moral and cultural values. American Christians believe in them and they see Israel as the fulfillment of the promises of the Bible.

I already noted this is an example of American Exceptionalism. No other country on earth publicly supports Israel to the extent America does. Whatever you think about Romney’s position and I agree with Debbie’s take on it – the fact is the American people see Israel as a blessing for their country.

Again, it has nothing to do with the Jews here. Its hard to think of another country in the world in which the non-Jewish majority has a love affair with the Jewish State. I challenge any one to name me one other than America.

NormanF on July 30, 2012 at 4:28 pm

I don’t see Debbie’s article as a call to vote for Obama at all. She is informing us on Mitt Romney. Even though I do not terribly dislike Romney (compared to the Muslim communist dictator we have now), we need to be informed of his actions and words in a forthright manner.

I would probably be a fan of Romney if I didn’t read her work. But she is right, imho.

PDMac60 on July 30, 2012 at 4:02 pm

I read her work and I’m still a fan of Romney.

FrenchKiss on July 30, 2012 at 4:40 pm

Let’s put it this way. As bad as Bush was, he never, ever called for Israel to return to the pre-1967 cease fire lines. He in fact openly stated that some settlement blocks would remain in place.

Obama called for Israel to return to its pre-1967 borders without pre-conditions.

Other than that, I think Deb is right.

JEG: Every single time his Condi Rice called settlements illegal and demanded Jews not live in them, Bush was endorsing pre-’67 borders. That’s what pre-’67 borders is. And the pre-’67 borders thing has been US policy, as I noted at the time Obama called for it. That he framed it in those words openly is what everyone objected to, but every single Prez who has demanded a stop of the settlements and/or endorsed a Palestinian State–as BUSH was the first to do–has endorsed that view. DS

Jonathan E. Grant on July 30, 2012 at 4:13 pm

some settlement blocks remaining in place is a prescription for slaughter. There is NO way they can be defended and why should we have a gerrymandered piecemeal state while they get “contiguous borders?”

Italkit on July 31, 2012 at 2:39 am

Such a requirement would leave Israel full of holes. Any one who looks at the map knows the requirement for a “contiguous” Arab state would leave Israel defenseless.

Another reason why those people who push for the so-called “two state” solution have no idea what they’re talking about. The Arabs are savages. They are not Belgians, not Swiss and certainly not Czechs and Slovaks.

Bush and others are clueless about the facts of life in the Middle East.

NormanF on July 31, 2012 at 8:19 pm

Bush was the first Republican President to endorse a Palestinian Arab state.

It will never happen though – not because of U.S pressure on Israel to create one or because of weak-willed Israeli leaders who can’t stand up to what is trendy and politically correct – it will never happen because the Arabs will never make peace with Israel.

What’s just as well is such a state would be a Hamastan surrounding Israel on both sides. The two-state solution is in truth no solution for peace at all – its a guaranteed recipe for the next Middle East war.

NormanF on July 31, 2012 at 8:14 pm

Debbie you make many valid points but don’t point out that there is a great deal of difference between Obama and Romney. Obama has a long history of associating with Jew haters, anarchists, socialists, etc. Romney has done no such thing (except perhaps James Baker). With Israel’s survival on the line, I would feel a million times more comfortable with Romney in the White House than Obama. No mainstream American leader can be expected to be a hundred percent staunch supporter of Israel and Zionism in the pure sense, but Romney comes a lot closer than our present president. Also, not to be a stickler, but it’s Jay Carney.

Martin on July 30, 2012 at 4:21 pm

Martin does make valid points. Obama goes out of his way to rub shoulders with anti-Israel left wing commies in this country.

Jonathan E. Grant on July 30, 2012 at 4:27 pm

Jon,

Don’t forget Hillary, Huma Abedein, the Muslim Brotherhood, etc.

Under a President McCain – it would have the same pro-MB BS as under Obama.

Republicans have supported anti-American and anti-Israel extremists in the Middle East just as the Democrats have done.

So any one who thinks that we’re going to suddenly see all that vanish doesn’t know the fever swamp called Washington.

NormanF on July 30, 2012 at 4:50 pm

Martin,

Not just James Baker. Add anti-Semite John “I am a Palestinian” Sununu.

You don’t know who Romney is rubbing shoulders with. There could many other scumbags you don’t know about.

Scott on July 30, 2012 at 6:07 pm

i’m not crazy about romney, but more sources tell me he’s a shoo-in for the WH… check it out:

http://www.biblecodedigest.com/page.php?PageID=806

kirche on July 30, 2012 at 4:25 pm

correction: my sources… not more sources

kirche on July 30, 2012 at 4:26 pm

A lot of work has been done about but Israeli scholars tell us the Bible codes can’t be used to forecast the future. It would deprive us of free will.

They can be used to confirm what has already happened. The Torah has secrets and it records the name of every person who will ever live unto the end of time.

NormanF on July 30, 2012 at 4:39 pm

kirche, the time of prophecy has passed.

skzion on July 30, 2012 at 11:15 pm

skzion, the time of SPEAKING prophecy has passed for now but the fulfillment is still to come and as for speaking it, I suggest you read Joel. In the End of Days, people will once again be having visions and speaking prophecy.

Italkit on July 31, 2012 at 2:42 am

Correction accepted, Italkit, but we do not know when the end of times will arrive. I suggest we concentrate on what we do know and avoid hocus pocus.

skzion on July 31, 2012 at 7:24 am

skzion I know you don’t mean to be taking from the Gospels but that’s where we find the idea that “no man knows the hour.” We can certainly read the signs. That’s one reason prophecy was given so we can prepare. Isaiah 17 refers to Damascus falling and never being rebuilt. The thing is Damascus has never fallen before, not in 6,000 years. It’s had it’s declines but never fallen in military action. It’s fall is considered by our Sages to be a sign of the coming of Messiah and once it falls, it is never rebuilt, so we are there. There’s a lot more that is going to happen but we are seeing fulfillment in our lifetimes. Stop cursing Israel, these are the leaders we “deserve” and have been given, but you may not have time to repent of your curse. Rav Ovadia’s politics are appalling and I’m not going to call him a saint by any means, but he is a peerless Torah scholar and would do well to live by his own understanding as would we all, political debacles aside. Sort of a case of do as I say not as I do.

Italkit on July 31, 2012 at 10:02 am

Italkit, you do have the leaders you deserve.

I do not curse the land, nation, or Torah of Israel. I just find much about the bolshevik pseudo-democracy called the state of Israel curseworthy.

I am always surprised when Jews channel Calvin in making a government holy.

I note that you do not contest the truth of my claims about the STATE of Israel. That is because you are content to sit on your hands and ponder codes and portents. This is what I was criticizing.

Finally, given that the Jews of Medinat Israel have refused to perform the first three mitzvot that they were commanded to perform upon entering the Land, these Jews have a lot to worry about.

skzion on July 31, 2012 at 10:48 am

To clarify: you are content to sit on your hands rather than change the odious political statis quo.

skzion on July 31, 2012 at 10:52 am

The only time the embassy will ever be moved is when you have a Jewish President. One who is tough and does what he thinks is right, no matter what others think. I would move it and that would be the end of it. To quote my dad, if the Arab and Muslim world didn’t like it then “They can S**T in their hat and pull it over their head for curlers.”

Glen Benjamin on July 30, 2012 at 4:34 pm

Actually, Romney did very well in Israel. And it wasn’t bullshit, it was the truth.

He stated Jerusalem was Israel’s capitol, which got the arabs pissed off, and that was good.

He also stated that Israel’s culture is more conducive to progress and success than the arabs, which also pissed off the arabs. Telling the arabs that they are culturally retarded was a good thing.

Romney said the right things. We’ll see if the Embassy is moved, when he becomes president.

FrenchKiss on July 30, 2012 at 4:37 pm

FrenchKisss,

C’mon wake up.He and his staff waffled and “clarified” his Jerusalem and “culture” comments. He did NOT promise to move the embassy to Jerusalem.

Don’t buy into his BS.

Scott on July 30, 2012 at 5:09 pm

Yup.

The only thing he said was Jerusalem was Israel’s capital. Its merely an acknowledgement of reality.

One thing has nothing to do with another and I didn’t hear him give an undertaking to actually move the US Embassy.

Did Debbie?

Then he didn’t lie – he just didn’t say he is going to do “X” once he is President and in any case, it will never happen as long as I’m alive since as I said peace between Israel and the Arabs is impossible and its just “too controversial” to move the US Embassy.

NormanF on July 30, 2012 at 5:19 pm

FK,

Like Debbie said, every presidential candidate before Romney said the same thing.

Human nature is constant. The millenia may have passed us but history is an exact science. We can apply a logical rule to what people will do.

Maybe we’ll get a pleasant surprise from a President Romney but its still light years from saying a thing to actually making it happen.

NormanF on July 30, 2012 at 4:43 pm

A Jewish president? Who, like Rahm Emmanuel, who in Chicago has, in effect, deputized and legitimized that great friend of the Jews, Louis Farrakhan to roam to streets, supposedly combatting crime, but in actuality promoting his hate group?

And Bolton supported the “Arab Spring”.

Little Al on July 30, 2012 at 4:56 pm

LA,

The pickings are few and between.

If you’re looking for a rerun of the “Greatest Generation,” prepare to be disappointed.

I didn’t know that about Bolton – thanks. I never thought the “Arab Spring” heralded a great democratic breakthrough in the Arab World.

They still hate America and Israel there and there will never be peace between Israel and the Arabs.

Then again a lot of morons sally forth with nonsense about negotiations, diplomacy and whatever have you that wastes every one’s time.

NormanF on July 30, 2012 at 5:04 pm

I don’t post on this board as often as some others, but in one of my posts months ago, I said don’t buy into any of the Repub “I love Israel” BS. Instead I listed 3 questions;

1.Is Jerusalem the capital of Israel?

2.Will you give a firm date to move the US embassy to Jerusalem?

3.Are Jewish “settlements” an obstacle to peace?

Any hedging or negative answers to those questions means the candidate is a fraud and no friend of Israel.

Forget about Romney answering those questions.

Scott on July 30, 2012 at 5:04 pm

The answers appear to be:

1. Yes
2. No
3. I’d saying he’s hedging here but if I was a betting man, I’d say the answer is going to be “yes.”

Two out of three does not a pro-Israel policy make. And that all depends on Mitt Happens not taking another position later, which happens all too frequently.

As Debbie pointed out, he already backtracked on his comments about how Israeli innovation and excellence in the high tech field have made Israel a leading export power because the Palestinian Arabs found it offensive.

Forget about Romney being Israel’s Great Hope as President.

NormanF on July 30, 2012 at 5:12 pm

Norman,

He waffled on the Jerusalem question.

He CANNOT answer yes to the first but no or maybe to the 2nd, because IF the US recognizes Jerusalem as the capital,then the embassy would HAVE to be moved there.

Any hedging on the settlement question means the person is against Jewish settlements.

Scott on July 30, 2012 at 5:39 pm

Scott,

Politicians tell you the sky is blue. It doesn’t mean they’ll give you free air.

Romney can say Jerusalem is Israel’s capital but it doesn’t mean he gave an undertaking to relocate the US Embassy there.

Again, one set of facts has no necessary connection to another set of facts.

NormanF on July 30, 2012 at 5:48 pm

Well Debbie, it looks like the joke’s on you, since you’ll probably vote for Romney anyway. And you take an awful lot for granted in this column, with your remarks about the next four years under Romney, and even nominating a likely press secretary (!). Do you seriously think Romney has even the SLIGHTEST chance of topping 45 percent this fall? If you do, maybe you should buy some of that property in Gazastan yourself.

Statusmonkey on July 30, 2012 at 5:50 pm

Actually, you might try looking at Gallup. It will be a close race.

I would take that survey over your prognostication: http://www.gallup.com/poll/election.aspx

Worry01 on July 30, 2012 at 6:03 pm

Or, the level of enthusiasm: http://www.gallup.com/poll/156194/Democratic-Voting-Enthusiasm-Down-Sharply-2004-2008.aspx

Aside from disliking the site’s owner, I really can’t take your other statements seriously.

Worry01 on July 30, 2012 at 6:05 pm

I guess we’ll see in just under 100 days. Glad to see that the wheels haven’t come off the armored air-conditioned Romney good news machine – yet. You’ll be singing a different tune in two months, I bet.

Tell me, will you at least agree to sit out the primary and general elections of 2016, if the unthinkable happens and Romney somehow DOES get creamed?

Statusmonkey on July 30, 2012 at 6:16 pm

Statusmonkey, as you know, I will be sitting out this election. Still, I think your language here is inappropriate. I grant that others have also used such language against you. How about you call those persons out and avoid nastiness?

skzion on July 30, 2012 at 9:50 pm

Are you for real? I can say with utter seriousness that there isn’t so much as a single old lady out there who’d be offended by my language on this site. My ideas, on the other hand…

Statusmonkey on July 31, 2012 at 12:22 am

Good news machine? I guess you are not up to reading things before commenting. As for wheels, you had best check your tire pressure.

Worry on July 31, 2012 at 2:28 am

What are you talking about? Romney is a double-riveted lead pipe cinch to win this thing. GUARANTEED 50-state landslide! Oh happy day, the Age of Romney has already begun. I’m currently trying to score some tickets to his SECOND inauguration in 2017. Aren’t you?

Statusmonkey on July 31, 2012 at 4:21 am

I will leave the creaming to you Statusmonkey.

Worry on July 31, 2012 at 2:41 am

Worry,

When you look at the polls they show a close race in the popular vote. However, in the Electorial Collge, which is where the numbers really count, Obama is way ahead.

A Reader on July 30, 2012 at 7:45 pm

A. Reader, I am not going to respond to you posts henceforth. I have seen enough of them. Bye.

Worry on July 31, 2012 at 6:32 am

Since they are all the same, who are you voting for Debbie?

John on July 30, 2012 at 5:50 pm

She has already answered that. You can read the thread.

Worry01 on July 30, 2012 at 5:56 pm

How come so many loyal readers of DS’ blog haven’t figured her out yet? All this hemming and hawing about what you THINK she said other than acknowledging her linear facts spotlighting certain dubious aspects that make some people we THINK are on our side be shown with their credibility knickers down? THAT’s what she is doing here. She’s filling in the grey area that we SHOULD know about.

That is what is great about her blog. Even if you don’t know all the history or facts about the issue (Israel…which I know not a hell of a lot about except I support it’s existence and Moooooooslims are the deranged bad-guys…and all FACTS paint that picture.) she makes it easy to understand all the particulars because she keeps the issue intellectually honest. A is first than B and then C…

You people who LOVE Mitt Zombie are either as Liberal as he is or you have decided to love him (damn the FACTS) without knowing the full story. Flip Floppney is a shape-shifter. Ask anyone like ME from Massachusetts who remembers his running for Senator against that dead, fat bastard Ted Kennedy (I was not into politics at the time and was closer to know-nothing Liberalism and I did disgustingly vote for Kennedy (YUCK!) because the press (who I believed at the time!) portrayed Flip as an eeeeeeeevil Republican) and who voted for him for Governor of Mass and saw how Liberal he actually was during the process.

As I have said over and over, DS is displaying the full truth, warts and all and Gregg Jackson has also done so from the Christian (Catholic) perspective. When all is taken into account you can’t say he isn’t what the FACTS portray. GJ will NEVER give Mitt his vote and I prolly will because the tipping point is so severe. And I know GJ is correct in his facts of why he will never vote for MR.

I will prolly vote for McRomney but I don’t think for a MINUTE that he will be our saviour. I am already used to his political prostitution. You can try to put lipstick on the pig but why bother? It cheapens both parties (pig and person).

DS sums it up correctly and definitively…we are indeed screwed. For so many reasons…Moooooslims, Progressives and brain-dead Prole citizens who can’t see beyond Kardashian Nation never understanding that Kardashian Nation was given to them on a platter by those who actually fought for and understood the concept and cost of FREEDOM.

Skunky on July 30, 2012 at 6:09 pm

Hmph. If defeating Obama is REALLY all you care about, you should have done more to keep the nomination from Mitt Romney. This presidential election has been over for 4 months now.

I only WISH I was wrong.

Statusmonkey on July 30, 2012 at 6:21 pm

Statusmonkey: I only WISH I was wrong.

LOLOL! Luckily the only person who thinks that is YOU. You can go back to flinging and licking your own crap!

Skunky on July 30, 2012 at 6:26 pm

So you hope that I’m CORRECT about Romney’s chances, then? Boy, are you dumb.

Are you sure you aren’t an Obama voter? You fit the profile to a “t.”

Statusmonkey on July 30, 2012 at 6:38 pm

StinkyMonkey you deserve to be mocked because you’re such an arrogant dummy. An a boy like you got beat by a woman. You may treat your wifey like the moron she is but don’t project you and your wife’s sickness on me. They belong to you and you alone.

And Brown is a SENATE race. He’s not like Obama-Putin who is going above the WHOLE of Congress and the Constitution. DUUUUHHHH!

I’d send Zombies to eat what is left of your brain but they have already feasted and you’re just getting by on the fumes of your ROT!

Skunky on July 31, 2012 at 10:39 am

Skunky, you know I’m a fan, but I do wish you’d tone down the vitriol as regards Statusmonkey. I’ve said the same to him.

There are lots of posters here who are dim or malevolent, but I don’t think there is good evidence that Statusmonkey is either of these things.

I almost enjoy your attacks, though. So don’t get sore. 🙂

skzion on July 30, 2012 at 9:54 pm

“almost always enjoy your attacks”

skzion on July 30, 2012 at 9:55 pm

Skzion, I hear you (but I will NOT stop) because MonkeyShines is a complete and total idiot who *thinks* he is so much more intelligent than we are because of his “purity” ideology.

IF DS says she is perhaps gonna vote for Mitt Zombie (and THAT is exactly the thing that gets MonkeyBusiness all agro BTW) what does that alone tell you? That the tipping point is outrageously precarious.

In more normal (or less dangerous) times what MonkeySlop is smugly cramming down our throats WOULD be the way to be. Unfortunately, the REAL tipping point has arrived. If one doesn’t see that they are huffing gas.

It’s his disgustingly undeserved hubris I am attacking. I know YOU are gonna sit out the election (which I think is foolish) but I don’t attack YOU because you are not arrogant about it and IT’S YOUR RIGHT. If you were prancin’ and preanin’ about it maybe I would but I doubt it…you have made up your mind and I respect (but disagree) with it.

And BTW I am doing what that idiot MonkeyCrap is espousing in my senatorial race. I am NOT voting for Scott Brown. Because I am NOT voting for a Republican who doesn’t have the guts to put a D after his name. I am not voting for Fauxcahontas aka Liarwatha either. So perhaps you misunderstood my annoyance at that pompous MonkeyCrap flingin’ bastard!

Skunky on July 30, 2012 at 11:08 pm

How very like a woman … basing her political outlook on emotion and personalities. For example, is there ANY significant difference between Scott Brown and Mitt Romney? Nope. But Skuzzy is voting for ONE of them.

I’m guessing that one of Skuzzy’s heroes is that towering intellectual Sandra Day O’Connor, who based most of her decisions on similarly frivolous bases.

Apparently her very fragile ego can’t handle the strain of someone who knows what he’s talking about. Maybe she feels threatened? You know perfectly well that she’s practically made herself out to be Schlussel’s chief of staff. I’m sure Schlussel is mightily impressed by a dingbat whose mind is utterly consumed with potty and scatological banter. Not!

Statusmonkey on July 31, 2012 at 12:56 am

“Flip Flopneycare”

lol!

DS_ROCKS! on July 30, 2012 at 6:16 pm

Liars, imbeciles, and mealy-mouthed cowards is all we have. Where have all George Washingtons gone?

2Skunky on July 30, 2012 at 6:21 pm

Are you people dense?

Saying in public that Jerusalem is the capitol of Israel is more than Obama can say.

Saying in public that arabs are culturally retarded is a big f–kin’ deal (To quote our illustrious VP)

And nothing was walked backed. So he doesn’t move the Embassy, who cares? Steps in the right direction are what matter.

BTW, I believe Romney is a classic liberal. Not a progressive leftist POS. But his values/morals will be waaaaaaaaaay more conservative (which is the correct values/morals to have) than DS gives him credit for.

FrenchKiss on July 30, 2012 at 6:31 pm

Why so pessimistic Debbie. We know where Obama now stands, and if he gets another four years with no “restraints” one can only imagine the devastation he can cause Israel. Romney has publicly stated where he stands on Israel. Let’s elect him and try to hold him to his promises. Let him know he has “restraints” too, if he wants to get re-elected he needs to keep his promises. The worst he could do would still be much better than what Obama WILL do. I “HOPE” Romney will “Change” your opinion of politicians.

N: Huh? I’m a realist, not a pessimist. You clearly didn’t get the point of this post, which is that Romney is saying the same things Obama said when he was running with regard to Israel and the Middle East. And we know that, just like Obama, it is empty campaign BS. If you really think he will move the Embassy or change a single Obama Middle East policy (none of which he’s said he’ll change), I have some land in the Sahara desert to sell you. And here’s a tip: Romney knows there are no “restraints” on him because people like you are still making excuses for him, no matter what he does. There is no outcry against Romney for hiring anti-Israel James Baker as his top Middle East adviser. Why aren’t you screaming about that, instead of making excuses? WAKE. UP. DS

ncfish on July 30, 2012 at 6:59 pm

Ronald Regan made the same pledge in 1980.

madman on July 30, 2012 at 7:06 pm

You’ve been pounding on Romney for quite awhile now. Is it too much to ask that he be given a chance? I don’t care if he’s the devil he would be better than Hussein and his evil twin Holder. Did it ever occur to you that Oslama, aside from having ZERO executive experiance, is a former cult member? Not just any old cult but a radical Jew/White hating cult. He was a member of that cult for years.

No, forget all that, just keep ragging on Romney. That’s the ticket…

manfromisrael on July 30, 2012 at 7:08 pm

So many of you just don’t get it.

If you are indeed from Israel, you should be able to see what DS has pointed out more than we Yanks.

You just don’t get it that in 2012 DS would not have to point out Flip Flopney’s weak points IF he didn’t give her the opportunity.

People who can’t see it should just be Liberals because they also make a deal with the devil to fool themselves even though the object of their desire is a faker from front to back. They know it but are either too dumb, weak or it’s so much part of their personae they can’t give up the facade.

After the glitter fades you’ll all say DS was right all along…

Skunky on July 30, 2012 at 7:34 pm

What do YOU know? You’re dumber and weaker than any of the people you are condemning. At least they don’t see Romney’s faults. You acknowledge them, but you STILL vote for him? What does that make you?

True hypocrites are quite rare. Most people delude themselves into seeing distinctions where they don’t exist. You on the other hand seem to EMBRACE cynical mendacity.

Statusmonkey on July 30, 2012 at 8:00 pm

NormanF, think carefully about what you said about the two-state solution. The one-state solution is the suicide. You know why, right? No? Can you say “demographics?” We don’t make very many babies. Others do.

manfromisrael on July 30, 2012 at 7:17 pm

MFI,

Israeli Jews have a higher than average population growth rate. The Arab birth rate has bottomed out and there is Arab emigration.

When Debbie and I were in our youth in the 1980s, we heard hysterical prognostications in the Israeli media (then as now the Occupied Territories For The Israeli Far Left) that the Jews would become a minority in Israel by 2010.

Guess what? It never happened! I don’t see Israel being overrun by the Arabs for the rest of this century.

With all the problems involved in incorporating Judea and Samaria into Israel, its preferable to the so-called “two state solution” for one reason: any hypothetical Arab state would be taken over by Hamas and be perched mere minutes from Israel’s major population centers and industry.

That would be an unmitigated disaster for Israel! Anyway, its all theoretical since there are two things in life I’m sure of: the Arabs will never make peace with Israel and there will never be an Arab state in the Land Of Israel.

I don’t expect Norman’s Law Of Middle East Constants to change at all in my lifetime.

NormanF on July 30, 2012 at 9:20 pm

Ok, troll, Jews are making plenty of babies and catching up in that regard. If you were a Jew, even secular, you’d know that. My very secular landlady just had her fourth and it wasn’t religion that made her do it. Also, we have one thing they don’t. RIGHT OF RETURN where even Jews like Debbie and skzion will one day realize they have only one place in the WORLD to be safe and it ain’t Detroit.

Italkit on July 31, 2012 at 2:51 am

Even Jews like me, Italkit? You seriously think that Jews are safe in Israel but endangered in the US? You, who’ve recently gone into a tirade about how poorly the Sephardim in Israel are treated?

Israel is a sitting duck holding half of world Jewry. You want to make it 100%?

The Jews on America are mostly surrounded by Xtians; the Jews of Israel are surrounded by Muslims. Who again is safer?

skzion on July 31, 2012 at 7:49 am

Well, skzion, you’re not Sephardi. Anyway that was to make the point about mentioning out Gilady’s ethnicity but not the likes of Weiner, Debbie Wasserman Shultz et al. Maybe I did extend my rant a bit but yah, I do think we’re safer here because you know what? There’s not going to be safety anyplace in the World when the next Global war comes and it will but as Jews, we have a special protection from Hashem if we’re righteous and do as Daniel was told to endure til the end. I don’t rely on politicians to protect me and Hashem has a plan that’s not all unicorns and rainbows but I think I have a better shot here than there.

Italkit on July 31, 2012 at 1:04 pm

Italkit, you say:

“There’s not going to be safety anyplace in the World when the next Global war comes and it will but as Jews, we have a special protection from Hashem if we’re righteous and do as Daniel was told to endure til the end. I don’t rely on politicians to protect me and Hashem has a plan that’s not all unicorns and rainbows but I think I have a better shot here than there.”

In other words, you will not address your political/governmental problems but instead rely on a miracle from Hashem. This is forbidden. But, putting this aside, as I said elsewhere on this column, you Israelis are NOT righteous. The Rambam tells us (Mishneh Torah, Laws of Kings, Chapter 1):

Halacha 1

Israel was commanded to fulfill three mitzvot upon entering the Promised Land:

a) To choose a king, as Deuteronomy 17:15 states: ‘Appoint a king over yourselves;’

b) To wipe out the descendents of Amalek, as Deuteronomy 25:19 states: ‘Erase the memory of Amalek;’

c) To build God’s Chosen House, as Deuteronomy 12:5 states: ‘Seek out His Presence and go there.’

NOW, there is disagreement over whether one is required to appoint a king if another form of government is preferred by the people. Kingship, in particular, helped produce many problems. Clearly one cannot expect Hashem to choose the person of the king. In addition, the Rambam could not know of future innovations in government, i.e., a constitutional republic (the constitution being Torah). So, all we can be confident of is that the Jews on the Land need to create a vigorous government with a strong executive to handle mitzvot 2 & 3.

About those mitzvot … you have not performed them after how many decades? You have Muslims swarming and squatting in the Land, and you utterly refuse to do anything about it. These Bnei Amalek play “football” on the Temple Mount! You just sit on your hands and expect Hashem to perform the mitzvot for you.

Italkit, I’m not “religious.” My faith is weak. But even *I* am offended by “Judaism” practiced in Israel. And, as one would expect, you suffer because of it. Furthermore, I am utterly confident that your errors are omnipresent among the “religious” in Israel. Poor ol’ $hade$ Yo$ef gets $$ for bastardizing everything that is important. But hey, at least he makes sure to attack gay Jews! That’s supposed to show his learning?

Enough! I don’t follow Israel anymore because it is pointless to do so.

skzion on July 31, 2012 at 6:27 pm

I’ve said this for years but it bears repeating — Israel is a microcosm of the rest of the West. They have demographic issues, among others, that will have to be addressed. Because of Israel’s small size, those issues are magnified and the associated negative effects occur quickly there. There is little room for governmental error and “political correctness” is a luxury they simply don’t have if they want to continue as a functioning nation.

The so called Palestinians will have to be dealt with sooner or later. Either they will be driven out of Israel, or will be non-voting aliens within Israeli borders. A democratic “one-state” solution will never work in a non-homogenous Israel. Think about why…

Same thing for the West only occurring much more slowly due to larger geographic borders.

There is more but you still are not ready to receive it…

manfromisrael on July 30, 2012 at 7:53 pm

ManfromIsrael,

Your solution of driving out the Palestinians or making them non-voting citizens will not work either. Simply, because Israel will have to play with the world. My belief is that there will eventually be a two state solution, when we get two leaders who really want to hammer our a peace treaty. Jerusalem is going to be the main issue. Which while being a Jew myself, I don’t want to see it divided, I believe something will have to be done about it.

A Reader on July 30, 2012 at 8:12 pm

You’re a moron who needs to get a frickin’ clue!

The Arabs don’t even keep agreements signed with themselves! Any one who thinks they will keep their word to the infidel Jews is smoking crack.

The Arabs hate the Jews and want to see them all dead. As Yair Shamir (the late Yitzhak Shamir’s son) said, the conflict will never end and Israel can never drop the sword.

Forget about re-dividing Jerusalem. It will never happen, G-d forbid.

NormanF on July 30, 2012 at 9:30 pm

Norman,

If I am the one who is supposed to get a “______” clue, I feel the same about you. Apparently, you and this board don’t understand how politics work and/or that politicians have to do whatever they can to get elected.

As far as the Arabs wanting us dead. Get a clue on that too, if there was an outright war, G-d forbid, then they will have people on thier side who will die as well.

This is what I love about this board, no thought on how things work, only attacks on those who you disagree with and Arabs/Muslims. No rational conversation or thought.

Oh Norman, I am a proud Jew, the big difference is that I am thinking things out and you are just giving us knee jerk reactions to what I or others say.

A Reader on July 30, 2012 at 9:39 pm

Norman, I am glad you put A Retard in his place. You have tried before but that moron just won’t get it. He is the insane that will get us all killed and won’t see it until HE is personally touched. That makes him a dumb and evil bastard.

And all you effen’ Jewish morons who don’t get it you make me sick. I am not Jewish but I see it oh so clearly. You should have too after 9/11. And these 11 subsequent years. The Moooooslims show their hand and openly admit what and who they are but you’re still wishing the puddy tat isn’t a Tazmanian Devil. Effen fools!

The ones who DO get it better see a non Jew like myself (and there are MILLIONS of us) are more on your side than evil, stupid Jews likes “A Retard” who’ll sell y’all out for cheap PC pandering. I’ll NEVER do that!

Skunky on July 30, 2012 at 9:53 pm

AR,

I do think things through.

I just have no tolerance for political correctness, lazy thought or wishful thinking.

The Arabs in a word are savages.

That is not going to change in this century and peace between civilized people (such as the Jews are) and savages (who the Arabs are) is impossible.

The “peace process” has produced reams of papers and conferences galore but all of them miss the real point.

Which is that the Arabs don’t want peace, period.

Some problems in this world have no solution. It would be better if every one accepted it.

NormanF on July 30, 2012 at 9:56 pm

Skunky, you are missing the point my dear. Even as bad as Romney is, and yes, DS makes valid points but Romney would still be vastly better than a second-term no-holds-barred Obama administration. Many do not see what is coming if we don’t get Obama out of there. I can’t say all I know right now but he must be defeated.

manfromisrael on July 30, 2012 at 8:03 pm

Manfromisrael I think I agree with you. My posts for the last year prove it. Why do you think I am voting for him????

My point is to see what DS is doing (reporting all the FACTS) but some of you get lost. I know it’s because of the terror of Obama-Putin but don’t get lost in the weeds. DS herself has even stated she may even vote for him. But you get upset when she tells us the truth. THAT is my point. I know your fear and feel it as well but I am voting for the fraud Romney because we are at the tipping point. Even so I want all the facts so we have his number IF he’s elected…and as DS has said, it won’t be all sweetness and light!

Skunky on July 30, 2012 at 9:44 pm

Personally, I wish that Israel would just start up the rocket power already. I work for a wonderful Jewish family and gosh they are wonderful, but they are liberal as heck. They already have an Obama sign 2012 in the yard. They have family in Israel and visit THREE times a year! It pains me, because I just don’t understand. I am Catholic, don’t understand that one either. I tell ya, I think we should all just get together and move the damn embassy ourselves. So, who are we supporting in the primary to ouster Debbie Stabenow?

sharon on July 30, 2012 at 8:03 pm

sharon, they are conditioned to care for the less fortunate so they see the socialistic policies of democrats as more appropriate in a place where republicans talk about “faith based giving” but do very little of it. When we left the US 4 years ago, charities were going begging for basic donations like food. That was before the economy got so bad and when Bush was in power. Jews have no problem with the state taking over and their tax dollars supporting the needy because when their grandparents came from the shtetls of Russia and Poland they were given an opportunity they could only dream of. They called the US, the Goldene Medina, The Golden Country. Emma Lazarus was a Jew and her poem at the Statue of Liberty is very central to Jewish belief and thinking. Even non religious Jews see charity and good works as the core of their Jewishness.

Italkit on July 31, 2012 at 3:00 am

Just a sidenote.

For all of those planning on voting for Romney, have you ever thought about where he stands on other isues or who else he hangs out with? I can name you a few people who are anti-semites who he might be speaking with but not making public.

I for one as I have said before, feel much more safer with Obama. Why? Because at least with him we know what we are getting in terms of Isreael and I want a fair democracy where people of all religions, genders, etc. are treated equally. Romney does not have a good track record in terms of equality. He has a record of being a Bully which he never really apologized for, won’t let the American public see his taxes, and other things.

You can all call me a liberal all you want. But, at least I know that with Obama we have some type of guarantee of equality as the constitution of the US demads.

Just one more thing, if anybody REALLY believes that ANY US President is going to move the capital of Isreal and US Embassy to Jerusalem, you are kidding yourselves. A President has to try to play both sides and that includes the Arab side of the issue.

PS: I also correspond with someone from Isreal from time to time. For your information, they have distain for us like the Arabs.

A Reader on July 30, 2012 at 8:03 pm

A Retard, I think it’s cute how you’re letting all your retardedness hang out. Only you don’t know how dumb it makes you look. You are the epitome of someone we all point and laugh at because you think you’re so smart and kind and fair when you’re just a useful and useless idiot for those who use your stupidness against you…

“I can name you a few people who are anti-semites who he might be speaking with but not making public.”
Why bother? DS has already made the point that Romney CANNOT be trusted and he is a political prostitute. Those on here with a brain have already acknowledged the FACTS that Flip Floppney is only the lesser of two evils. Many of us for years have been protesting the lack of brains, character and intellectual honesty of the Republican Establishment. You’re just pissin’ in the wind as you always do (as you like the taste of your own urine…).

“I for one as I have said before, feel much more safer with Obama. Why? Because at least with him we know what we are getting in terms of Isreael (sic) and I want a fair democracy where people of all religions, genders, etc. are treated equally.”

You want a “fair democracy” but USA is a Constitutional Republic. Or at least it was. If you feel safe with Obama-Putin it is because you’re a stupid Marxist who can’t see beyond Nanny Gubmint telling your dumb ass what to do and when you will do it. Also you have not paid ANY attention to the TRUTH that is Obama-Putin. All you think he is is a lie and those in the know have known this since 2007. You’re too late and stupid to get it.

“Romney does not have a good track record in terms of equality.”
Only as dumb Marxist like you puts all his/her hope into “equality”. You’re too dopey to see it’s not “equality” that makes USA great but our Liberty and Freedom. Why does your stupid ass think George Orwell presciently and astutely said ‘Some animals are more equal than others.’ You’ll be a good doo-bee and enjoy the Victory cigarettes and chocolate and be proud when those of the inner-party get Godiva-like quality and you are stuck with Palmer chocolate. You won’t complain now, will you?

“He has a record of being a Bully which he never really apologized for, won’t let the American public see his taxes, and other things.”
Is he a wimp or a bully? When he was Governor of Mass he was hardly a bully. Our legislation is almost 100% DEMOCRAT and when he could have legally gone around the Liberal tricks he never did. Who’s Mitt’s daddy? He is NOT the bully you believe, dumbass! Can’t have it both ways…he’s either a wimp or a bully but we already know he’s a political prostitute.

And if you are so hot to see his taxes when he has released as many returns as others in the past have I hope your stupid-ass is as hot for Obama-Putin’s birth certificate, his forged selective service papers (THAT DS HERSELF UNCOVERED), his college transcripts, why he and his Wookie-looking wife do NOT practice law, Chewbacca’s little University of Chicago patient dumping scam, how Bill Ayers wrote his FIRST book and how his parents were never married and BO Senior isn’t even his real dad and he knows who his real dad is.

I hope your stupid kool-aid colonic arse is into all those “side notes”. You are fun to tear to shreds because you sell stupidity so smugly.

Skunky on July 30, 2012 at 9:36 pm

Skunky,

First of all I don’t call people names, and he “R” word is a slur against people with developmental disabilities.

Apparently, like many on this board all you do is call people with other views names without thinking through what they are saying. All I was doing was pointing out to all here that there are other issues at stake. As far as far and equal society, that’s what does make America great, besides freedom and democracy. They go hand in hand.

A Reader on July 30, 2012 at 10:05 pm

LOL A Retard, I noticed that you had NO ANSWERS to me tearing apart your stupidity but took the fake “people with development disabilities” meme out of your bag of stupid tricks. FAIL!

Take that meme and shove it far up your stupid arse. Those with class and character never make fun of the Down Syndrome sorts but I will use the word RETARD for you. And you must have not gotten the Liberal memo…that the developmentally disabled don’t like to be called “retard” and that suits me fine because the word was made for MORONS of your ilk.

You’ll never get it but for those dummies tempted to think you know what you’re talking about…I’ll make them see what a f***ing fool you are, you retard!

Skunky on July 30, 2012 at 10:28 pm

Skunky,

I just got on the computer quickly to see what you responded to me. However, I have a very simple question for you.

Do you treat your freiends and co-workers (assuming you go to work) the same way? Calling them names if they don’t agree with you? I really cannot believe someone who calls themselves “educated” can use such vile and awful language.

Oh, sorry, “retard” is a disparaging word. Unfortunetly, you have not caught up with much of society.

A Reader on July 31, 2012 at 2:25 am

“All I was doing was pointing out to all here that there are other issues at stake. As far as far(SIC) and equal society, that’s what does make America great, besides freedom and democracy. They go hand in hand.”

No A retard, that is what your Liberal overlords told you to think. Equality? Really? Why don’t you ask those that fled Soviet Russia (or China or Cuba) what they thought of “equality”. You’re too stupid to see that there is a good and bad side to the coin. Is equality great when we ALL get Victory (Palmer) chocolate when upper-party members get Godiva…and they are not rationed?

We we all have to wallow in misery does that make “equality” more palatable?

You haven’t a fricken’ clue and you need to go back to pre-school. You think we all here are heartless and evil bastards when you haven’t a right to even LOOK at the ring.

You know NOTHING and act as if you’re an expert. You’re a fool and I love pointing it out because you are so stupid.

FREEDOM was when I could still smoke (I am a non-smoker) in restaurants and anywhere I wanted to but the creeps on your side made sure to take that FREEDOM of mine away with creeping incrementalism a long time ago. Now smokers are looked upon as freaks. Society used to be more “egalitarian” years ago before the evil and fraudulent Progressives started taking over. Now they only want freedom of gays and abortion…and absconding with all the tax-payer money they can grab!

Skunky on July 30, 2012 at 10:39 pm

LOL, spoken like a true Romney voter.

Remember how a few months ago, when the “dog on the roof” controversy was raging, Ann Romney made that laughable claim that the pooch actually loved riding up there, and would practically fly into that crate with joy?

I kind of think of you doing the same thing.

Statusmonkey on July 31, 2012 at 12:35 am

NO BODY cares what a crap throwing and licking money thinks.

Skunky on July 31, 2012 at 12:49 am

More potty humor. What class.

If I AM flinging crap, I’d say that you must’ve gotten a faceful of the st-

Wait, you DIDN’T? That’s your own face, then? I am truly sorry.

Statusmonkey on July 31, 2012 at 1:20 am

Skunky,

I asked you a basic question which you didn’t answer to me last night. Quickly, again, do you treat people who you know at work and on the outside of this board this way?

Just one more thing. I have never been on a board which is soooo “consertative” that free discussion of issues isn’t allowed. Only your point of view.

A Reader on July 31, 2012 at 10:18 am

Skunky, I think you are dealing with an ESL dropout:

…feel much more safer with Obama. Why?

A. could not even spell Israel correctly. Of course, too many first oousin marriages can lead to such things.

Worry on July 31, 2012 at 2:51 am

A Retard, you can’t even spell “Israel” correctly. You a Muslim in drag?

skzion on July 30, 2012 at 9:59 pm

I have two points:

1) If Romney wins the Mormon Church may very well be calling all the shots. Any Mormon in good standing (and that is a phrase that actually means something in that Church) must do anything and everything the Church tells them no matter what. If Romney states that is not the case with him, and he remains a member in good standing, he will be lying because the Church told him to.

2) Number 1 aside, I disagree with Debbie to the extent that Romney will want to run for relection. I am not sure how much of a difference that will make but I believe it could be substantial.

I_AM_ME on July 30, 2012 at 9:45 pm

Deb:

President Bush’s policies regarding Israel frustrated me to no end, but I’m not sure it’s fair and accurate to claim that he REFUSED to move the U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem. To date, President George Bush made the strongest effort to move the embassy and did so early in his administration.

When Congress pushed back President Bush pushed back at Congress. (The Congress is not “Israeli Occupied Territory as anti-Semites lament. Congress is the best legislative body Saudi Petrodollars can buy.) While the President ultimately threw in the sponge, I’ve been informed by sources I trust (Including my own Congressman at the time) that President Bush’s effort was unprecedented.

I suppose it all could have been for show with the President knowing he’d ultimately have to wave the white flag, but nonetheless, it was a public display of the President’s desire to move the embassy to Jerusalem; not a refusal as you claim.

President Bush was always good at speaking well of Israel and doing good toward Israel while letting his immediate subordinates do the dirty work of betraying Israel to the hilt. I agree with your years of criticism that George W. Bush was hardly the most pro-Israel President as many partisan Republicans would have us believe.

I just want to set the record straight. The sentence that describes President Bush “…refusing to move the U.S. Embassy there from Tel Aviv?” is not accurate.

The end result of American policy toward Israel has not changed from President Bush to President O’Bama. However, the rhetoric emanating from the Presidents’ mouths is vastly different. President Bush always spoke well of Israel. President O’Bama is constantly kvetching that “Israel is the problem”.

American politicians all make kissy-face with Israel in an election year. Do you know that Justin Amash recently voted for an overwhelmingly pro-Israel congressional resolution. Nothing like an election and a likely challenge from a Jewish candidate to get an anti-Israel American politician wearing a yarmulke and giving speeches in synagogues.

I’m too old to take this stuff seriously. I merely remind people that campaign speeches and promises are not legally binding.

TINSC: HUH? Bush made ZERO effort to move the U.S. Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. Where the heck did you get that he made “the strongest effort” or that he “pushed back”? He did NO such thing and made NO such effort. In fact, Bush fought American Jews who wanted their four-year-old kid’s death certificate to read as the place of death, “Jerusalem, ISRAEL.” Please don’t be an apologist for this lout, Bush. The statement is exactly accurate. DS

There is NO Santa Claus on July 30, 2012 at 10:07 pm

There was a remark in this commentary that Amb. John Bolton supported the Arab Spring. Would someone kindly provide any evidence of that allegation. If memory serves me well, it’s a ridiculous charge.

Neils60 on July 30, 2012 at 11:07 pm

Neils60, from this interview, it doesn’t look good.

“The Arab Spring may be fascinating, and may or may not endure. Sadly, Iran’s hegemonic threat looks far more sustainable.”

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704641604576254843851472796.html

Italkit on July 31, 2012 at 3:09 am

Debbie it matters not where the U.S.embassy is. Or who the next president is. So long as Mischiach is coming soon you and I can relax and have fun. I say we call in sick, fire up some dro, and play spin the dreidel.

A1 on July 31, 2012 at 12:42 am

Poor A1 won’t have his erectile dysfunction treated so he comes here to beat off.

skzion on July 31, 2012 at 11:01 am

Israel is not the issue.

The issue is the West’s sinking to craven dhimmitude.

I agree that Mitt Romney is not exactly a man of vision but he looks normal next to the cravenness to which the IOC has sunk.

No details on this thread but suffice it to say the Sharia Olympics and Londonistan are apt terms for what is happening there today.

NormanF on July 31, 2012 at 3:12 am

Yes we all know that Obungler is not a friend of Israel. It is so painfully obvious that even brain dead liberals have come to realize that fact. Now as to Mitt Romney. Debbie clearly points out that if he is elected it will be business as usual as far as Israel is concerned. Old Flip Flopney will do and say anything to fit the audience that hs is speaking to at the moment. Everyone in the conservative media is saying how Etch-A-Sketch’s trip was a roaring sucess. This despite him backtacking on statements like his support for Israel hitting Iran should it come to that. For the average Romney supporter his actions would leave you with a bad case of vertigo. Thanks Debbie for the facts about Bush and his stupidity regarding Israel. He was so beholden to people like his hand holding buddy raghead Saudi king Abdullah that it was a joke. It is just like I said. In this election we have on the one hand a radical socialist president with a horrible record who doesn’t know a thing about simple economics or the military vs a RINO blueblood republican flip flopper. Either way Debbie’s right about the US being screwed once again with respect to the Middle East. At least we can rest knowing that the mad mad mullahs will be happy with either of our picks.

Ken b on July 31, 2012 at 9:30 am

You failed to mention that Obama has not even visited
Israel since he has been elected President. His first
speech was in Cairo, glorifying Islam and disingenuously
stating that America is no longer a Judeo Christian nation.
The fact that Romney enjoys a long standng friendship with Benjamin Netanyahu says enough in itself; Romney is a friend of
Israel.

Ruth Roman on July 31, 2012 at 9:33 am

Ruth, “a friend of Israel”?! That’s one error. Your second error is thinking that Bibi is a friend of Israel.

skzion on July 31, 2012 at 5:54 pm

I think most Americans do not know or care about all the little details about what is going on in Israel and they are busy over here trying to keep a roof over their heads, food in the larder and some kind of job….THAT being said, I think they do want Israel to survive but the details are just TOO MUCH and way to confusing.

So on that note, whoever the candidate perceived by these busy folks to be “WANTING Israel to survive in the face of huge problems in the region”, will get those Americans votes….whether they be Evangelical Christians or not.

If I am wrong, I am wrong…

Alabama Pride on July 31, 2012 at 9:38 am

Debbie: Thanks for reminding of us of some inconvenient truths about our “conservative” leaders. The only area in which I think Romney will be an uptick over BHO, as far as foreign policy is concerned, is his approach to Jihadist Muslim governments and NGOs. I doubt highly he will bow to them the BHO has. I could be wrong, of course.

SKZion: I read your posts, and feel your pain. However, I wish I could convince you that things are not so bad in Israel. Yes, the old-guard leadership is a bunch of selfish, opportunistic, corrupt leftists (Bibi included). But there is hope. The younger generation is moving quickly to the right, and it is the idealistic right of Rav Kook, Jabotinsky, Shamir, and Kahane. Right now, in the Likud party, there are factions and individual MKs who are moving on the way to a new dawn in Israeli political leadership. If you want to feel a bit better about things, visit JewishIsrael.org.

And, as for Israel’s Jews being “sitting ducks”, consider two things. 1. Israel, for all its faults, has done more than you can imagine to protect itself from large-scale attacks. Sadly, it is difficult to stop every terrorist, but Israel’s fail rate in this is only about 2%. You simply would be amazed at some of the things Israel has done to prevent large-scale attacks from its neighbors. 2. If you have faith, then Israel has a Secret Weapon, whose will mankind cannot change.

I used to be an optimist about the U.S., and a pessimist about Israel. Today, I have flipped. I think Israel might outlast the Republic as we know it. Israel does not need the U.S. It needs only its own people, clear-headed and devoted to our people, our land and our Lord.

Phil on July 31, 2012 at 9:45 am

I couldn’t have said it better, Phil. America is not mentioned in the TaNaKh, at least not in any positive way. Some people see the term “AmReka,” “a desolate people” as a code for the US, I don’t know, it could be. TaNaKh is full of puns and anagrams but we have a promise and it’s ETERNAL. NO matter how difficult things get and the fact that only a remnant of us will survive, there will always be an Israel but there is not going to be an AmReka for very long.

Italkit on July 31, 2012 at 1:10 pm

Italkit, given the bragging you have done regarding your IQ, I am dismayed that, like virtually all the “Anglos,” you have adopted a silly hopey-changy set of cliches. Yes, Israel will exist always, and so will Jews. However, there is NO reason to believe that those living in Israel are safe from destruction. You think Hashem won’t see you destroyed when you insist on demanding miracles and will not perform the first three mitzvot that you should have performed immediately upon entering the Land? What happened to the Jews of the first two temples, who at least built the temples, unlike today’s Israelis?

skzion on July 31, 2012 at 9:50 pm

Phil, I appreciate your kind post. I know all about Feiglin. I even fundraised for him for a bit. I don’t take him seriously. I doubt that many people know more than I do about today’s Israel. I have joined the minority that support two states, one for Jews, the other for Halachic Jews who call themselves Israelis. You can Google my thoughts with the terms “virtual medinat yehuda political self-liberation” (no quotes). I am “sk.”

Note in addition that the defensive precautions you mention are anti-Torah. We are commanded to kill the Muslims the moment we learn they intend to kill us. Furthermore, the attacks against Jews and Jewish control of the Land has created a situation of milchemet mitzvah, and this requires immediate slaughter of the Fakestinians.

skzion on July 31, 2012 at 9:39 pm

skzion: Thanks for you reply. I agree with you on the halachic issues, but many of the defensive measures Israel has taken would not impact Arab Muslims living inside Israel, only Arabs in enemy nations, so there is no need to activate those weapons unless an attack is certain. I am all for the voluntary resettlement of Arab Muslims to Arab Muslim countries, and I support economic incentives for that. I think that the problem of a fifth column of Arabs inside Israel would be solved fairly quickly using voluntary resettlement.

As for the separate state idea, I have a few issues. First, halachically, only land outside of biblical Eretz Israel could be handed to the non-halachic state, and since that would exclude many secular population centers, it won’t be acceptable. Second, unlike you, I am not willing to give up on any of my bretheren. Shmuel Sackett, whom I know well, has said that the problem of secular Israelis is the fault of the dati leumi Israelis, since they abdicated the leadership of the state to the secular socialists. Feiglin wants to fix this. Not by legislating Torah observance, but through education, example, brotherly love, and removing obstacles to the Torah way of life. It is inclusive, rather than exclusive, the way a separate Torah-based state would be. As a baal tshuva myself, I know that tshuva is possible for any and every Jew. Like Sackett, I refuse to turn my back on my brothers. That’s why I am a Feiglinite, and do not support dividing Israel.

Phil on August 1, 2012 at 10:12 am

Phil, I appreciate your reply. You say you agree with me on the Halacha. OK, (1) what is the Halachic basis for voluntary resettlement with compensation as opposed to slaughter/expulsion of the Muslims of Eretz Israel? (2) Since the Muslims outside Eretz Israel (as it is currently delimited) actively aid those within, how are they to be exempt from immediate destruction? Indeed, the Muslims calling themselves Fakestinians are, they keep telling us, one people. (3) What, furthermore, is the justification for waiting for “imminent” attack? These guys have already made plans to kill Jews, and they are implementing them. Even if they were not implementing them, there is no need to wait until the last minute (I’ll supply cites upon request.) (4) Further, if Muslims are presumed to be Amalekites (being valuable allies of the Nazis, who have been deemed Amalekites, and acting for all the world like Amalekites), how can Muslims be allowed to exist anywhere near Eretz Israel, regardless of their military preparation?

You say:

“First, halachically, only land outside of biblical Eretz Israel could be handed to the non-halachic state, and since that would exclude many secular population centers, it won’t be acceptable.”

But right now ALL of the land of Eretz Israel is either controlled by the Amalekites or a non-halachic state. I’m just suggesting that it’s better to unload the Muslims immediately and transfer some land (not including the coastal strip but certainly including the Old City) to Medinat Yehudah. This is a great improvement.

“Second, unlike you, I am not willing to give up on any of my bretheren.”

Well, some of your brethren don’t want to live the way you want to live, just as certain Jews do not want to live under a secular government. I suggest that there are two peoples, Israelis and Jews. What works for one will not work for the other. As both are halachically Jewish, allowances need to be made if both are to live in Eretz Israel.

“Shmuel Sackett, … has said that the problem of secular Israelis is the fault of the dati leumi Israelis, since they abdicated the leadership of the state to the secular socialists. Feiglin wants to fix this. Not by legislating Torah observance, but through education, example, brotherly love, and removing obstacles to the Torah way of life. It is inclusive, rather than exclusive, the way a separate Torah-based state would be.”

No, it is not inclusive, as it does not respect the rights of Jews who want a secular government. It just, in principle, substitutes law and persuasion for the current regime’s lawlessness. I personally would never live in Judah, but I would vacation there. I would never live in Israel because it’s a quasi-bolshevik regime. The reason Feiglin will not succeed is that the elite class knows full well that he wants to topple them EVERYWHERE.

Phil, I’ve written elsewhere much along these lines. I appreciate your comments, but I’m not a prospect for conversion to Feiglinism.

skzion on August 1, 2012 at 12:44 pm

Debbie,

Again, I hope you are wrong, but I suspect you are right on this one. It is interesting, though, that a major world figure, even though just a candidate, made a very pro-Israel speech in Israel on Tisha B’Av. Either it’s a very good sign or a big fake-out.

David on July 31, 2012 at 11:52 am

I don’t know what to say in this thread. But if you people have Google, I hop you all can draw to you own conclusions.

If you want to know what would happen if Barack Obamney were to stay for another 4 years, look at Canada from 1968 to 2006 when we had an almost unlimited succession of Liberal governments implementing socialistic policies and social engineering initiatives.

If you want to know would happen if Mitt Robama were to take the White House, look at Canada from 2006 to the present where we have a leader who’s torn between undoing the damage left by the previous ruling elite and maintaining a thoroughly entrenched and brainwashed status quo, failing to realize that we are more bankrupt (financially, morally, politically) than the would like to think.

I suspect that other side of the American Exceptionalism coin is Exceptionalist Complacency – the type of complacency that has caused productivity to dwindle, the greenback to nosedive, innovation and initiative to grind to a crawl, general cultural morality to plummet to the level of the Kardashians and Octomom, education and discipline to lose all meaning and relevance, and, of course, 9-11.

Back on topic, every previous American leader had in one form or another tried to placate Israel since Her inception and had somehow acknowledged Her right to exist. But then as now and as it always will be, it’s all about politics, spin, smoke and mirrors.

We know what Bush I, Camelot Clinton, Bush II and Obamney have done for Israel.

What about Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter and Reagan? What had they done for Her?

In the end, as it always been, as it is and as it always will be, it will be the Jews and the Jews alone who’ll do anything, for better and for worse, to save and strengthen Israel in the sea of Caliphate-hungry warlord-opportunists. Neither the Xtians, Evangelicals, Democrats, Republicans, liberals, conservatives, socialists, Europeans, Asians, Africans or Martians have the resolve to help Her beyond a token gesture or 2 – provided if they were to have any flying f— to give. If the Jews can ditch this disastrous “Dayenu” mentality, they will prevail.

Right now, let’s be content that we all have jobs and a life, that we can all afford to have a roof over our heads and food on the table, and to bitch and complain till the cows come home. I still love Americans, their feistiness and variety of services and goods (BTW – avoid the Freestyle from AT&T: its a cheap-ass POS), and definitely their humanity. But the leadership has to stop being complacent and start using the mythical lost art of American Know-How to tell the world how to do the right thing, and do it.

I may be agnostic. I might be a complete atheist after all. And I’m definitely no genius. But in the end, the Jews and Israel will stand alone.

The Reverend Jacques on July 31, 2012 at 12:43 pm

^I don’t know what to say in this thread. But if you people have Google, I hope that you all can draw to your own conclusions.

Don’t let emotion get in the way of a good post. Or thought process.

The Reverend Jacques on July 31, 2012 at 12:48 pm

Excellent, RJ.

Italkit on July 31, 2012 at 1:12 pm

Scott, you are correct. The Evangelicals, except for a few and, in truth, I am uncertain about a few, only have their own agenda and interest as their focus. I have lived all over the south, and now am living in the midwest, I have to say, I have never heard any one of them show much concern for the Jews. In actuality, their comments are usually disparaging. Although, they want the Temple rebuilt and this is mentioned frequently. I am not sure many of them are smart enough to have a clue what is needed for that to happen. I guess, they think it gets magically rebuilt. I’m sure Mr.Romney was coached what to say to garner interest and votes. He, himself, is out of touch with the average American citizen and apparently, the British. He will not move the Embassy to Jerusalem. He frequently says one thing one day and then, backtracks on it the next day.

Anne on July 31, 2012 at 2:10 pm

So, Debbie, based on your article, Romney is unlikely to choose a reality-based, pro-Israel, pro-American running mate with integrity, either. No one such as Allen West is in the cards…

Buddy Macy on August 1, 2012 at 12:02 pm

Jeepers Debbie,

Dr. Daniel Pipes seems to be a little more supportive of Romney than you.

So if Romney doesn’t put the US on top of the Dome of the Rock he’s a fraud? What if the US recognizes Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and doesn’t move any buildings? Would that make you happy?

http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2012/07/romney-remarkable-speech-in-jerusalem

Joe Falk on August 1, 2012 at 9:41 pm

Even if Mr.Romney chose Allen West as his running mate, he will not move the embassy to Jerusalem. Mr.Romney has a history of fabrications if you read any of the US news then research it on the internet. He pretty much says anything people want to hear or, things that are just out right fabrications. When he wanted to run for governor of MA he had been in Utah running the Olympics and had been there 2-2.5 yrs. MA has a constitution that says anyone running for governor has to have lived in the state for 7 consecutive years. Mr Romney paid taxes in Utah claiming his address there because taxes are less than MA. When is residency came up as an issue he said he was going to file taxes in MA retroactively showing residence there. Whether he actually did or, not, no one really knows because, much like now, he refused to show is income tax returns. Here is a link from an ex-Mormon that will give you an idea about his religion. He was a bishop with the LDS Church. The church comes first, family second. If the church calls to request ANYTHING they are obligated to do it, no matter what.The Mormon Church is one of the wealthiest organizations in the world, vying with the Catholic Church for #1. No one knows the exact amt because neither releases their financial information. The Mormon Church is how much younger than the Catholic Church? Read this short article and then form your own opinion.

Ihttp://voices.yahoo.com/mitt-romneys-mormon-secrets-11070962.htm

Anne on August 2, 2012 at 2:29 pm

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Romney “Jerusalem is Israel’s Capitol” BS Echoes Candidates Clinton, Both Bushes, Obama; Talk is Cheap; The Carney Video

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