@debbie
i no way am i defending al-zamili’s actions if these allegations are true, but i would like to make two subtle points:
– if a foreign power arrested one of our crooked politicians, there would be ample cause to complain about a “violation of sovereignity”.
– so let’s not assume that those who were complaining about such a violation were automatically supporting al-zamili’s actions.

ready5 on February 9, 2007 at 12:54 pm

It’s time to stop screwing around with these savages and “level” that garbage dump called Iraq. We tried everything to give these savages their own country and the chance to govern themselves, and what have they shown?
1. They are incapable,
2. They are arrogant and unappreciative.
We nuked Japan twice during WWII in order to save ourselves…now, it’s Iraq’s turn. Fuck ’em!

Thee_Bruno on February 9, 2007 at 1:07 pm

@thee_bruno
crack open a history book, dude… “savages”? “incapable”? there were a few centuries there where the arab world was far ahead of the christian world in science, medicine, government, etc.
“arrogant and unappreciative”? um… how would you like it if they imposed their government on you?
and now you want to nuke them? do you realize that you sound EXACTLY like the very extremists you condemn?
and for the record: we didn’t nuke japan to “save ourselves”… it was to avoid a costly ground war and to prevent the russians from gaining any more japanese territory.

ready5 on February 9, 2007 at 1:32 pm

What Ready 5, more PC history? Just when will you wise up and read the actual historical record. The way you see it the Arabs saved the world. Half their barbaric cult was based on borrowed themes from Judaism and well the rest we can see the cut throat Mo hammed made up as he went along.
Please tell us all about the inventions philosophies of intolerance and commerce raiding these wonderful people came up with. Don’t forget to give dates so we can verify at what point the originators there of had in relation to Islam prior to the conquest from Islam.

Islamsnotforme on February 9, 2007 at 1:42 pm

My favorite is that the Liberal media still refers to al Sadr as a “shiite cleric”, ignoring the fact that he has an illegal armed military and has been indicted for murder.

ddhinnyc on February 9, 2007 at 2:04 pm

“What Ready 5, more PC history? Just when will you wise up and read the actual historical record.”
– i happen to be a graduate student in history, so trust me, i have read the “actual historical record”… i’m kind of doubting you’ve ever come with ten feet of a primary record.
“The way you see it the Arabs saved the world.”
– false.
“Half their barbaric cult was based on borrowed themes from Judaism and well the rest we can see the cut throat Mo hammed made up as he went along.”
– islam is a abrahamic religion, so obviously it “borrowed themes from judaism”. so does christianity… what’s your point? keep in mind that muhammad died in 632, so don’t get too caught up in pinning the whole of the islamic conquest on muhammad. also, keep in mind that there are large qualitative differences between the various caliphates (rashidun, umayyad, abbasid, and fatmide) of the arab empire. further, if you’re going to denigrate islam as a “barbaric cult”, you might want to spell out how any other religion isn’t the same. how was the territorial expansion of the rashidun caliphate any different than the subjugation of pagan peoples in europe by the roman catholic church?
“Please tell us all about the inventions philosophies of intolerance and commerce raiding these wonderful people came up with. Don’t forget to give dates so we can verify at what point the originators there of had in relation to Islam prior to the conquest from Islam.”
– i have no idea what you’re trying to say in either of these sentences, but why don’t you do a little research on you own. here are some quick tertiary resources to get you started:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_science_in_the_Islamic_World
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age

ready5 on February 9, 2007 at 2:33 pm

raedy5 vomited more PC revisionist history bullshit;
“there were a few centuries there where the arab world was far ahead of the christian world in science, medicine, government, etc.”
Please be specific. When did this happen, what government institutions were superior?
Don’t just pull it out of your ass.
Arabs have never known any form of government except monarchies, tribal leaders, dictators and murderers.
Name the great works of philosophy Arabs are noted for.
“how would you like it if they imposed their government on you?”
Then you admit that Arab government is nothing but evil, incompetent and intolerant. Nice!
“and now you want to nuke them? do you realize that you sound EXACTLY like the very extremists you condemn?”
No, fucktard…it’s called survival. It’s the muzlums who want to murder the infidel. Do you know what happened on 9/11? I’m sure you do, you arab, muzlum bastard!
“and for the record: we didn’t nuke japan to “save ourselves”… it was to avoid a costly ground war and to prevent the russians from gaining any more japanese territory.”
What a pile of shit!
You’re really one-fucked up asswipe.

Thee_Bruno on February 9, 2007 at 2:55 pm

BTW, wikipedia is a site that anyone can post anything he wants to it.
Wikipedia is not to be trusted for reference material because, as I said, anyone can post their propaganda there.
What a fucktard!

Thee_Bruno on February 9, 2007 at 2:57 pm

@thee_bruno
“Please be specific. When did this happen, what government institutions were superior?”
– quickly: as far as science and medicine go, you might want to read some of the crusaders’ accounts of how advanced/effective/scientific islamic medicine was in comparison to the religiously-steeped folk medicine of the christians, or about the development of the modern hospital… or, for something quick, maybe just consider that the numerals we use today are arabic… ever think about that?
concerning government, you need to remember that classical liberalism didn’t crystallize until the late 17th century. prior to that time, europe had only gotten as far as developing assemblies of nobles to check the excesses of the monarch (which also existed far earlier in the arab empire). in general, comparisons some comparisons can get a bit ragged… especially with respect to emancipation of serfs, abolition of slavery, and women’s suffrage (e.g. france in 1944 throws the curve). however, the fact remains that the medieval arab empire held all people as equals before the law and broadened enfranchisment (at least for property-owners) at a time when europe did not. on the other hand, the roman republic had offered the same (between the fall of the monarchy in 509bce and the rise of the empire in the first century bce)… so it really depends on what your scope/term is.
“Arabs have never known any form of government except monarchies, tribal leaders, dictators and murderers.”
– while the middle east has lagged behind the west in terms of liberalism (in the classical sense), that does not mean that the middle east is devoid of democratic impulse (e.g. turkey since the 1920s, iran prior to the 1953 by the usa/britain, etc). granted, neither turks nor iranians are arabs, but that at least puts away with the notion that muslims are incapable of secular republics. as far as arabs go, you can look to egypt, lebanon, syria, and yemen for evidence of elections or to bahrain, jordan, and kuwai for evidence of constitutional monarchy. and before you start trumpeting about how those aren’t democracies, let me state that neither is the usa… we’re a democratic republic (e.g. the supreme court is appointed, not elected). bottom line: just because (classical) liberalism started in the west does not mean its not spreading elsewhere. regardless, your statement above is patently false.
“Name the great works of philosophy Arabs are noted for.”
– i really don’t have the time for a full list… and as you’re evidently quite the racist, i doubt you’d ever admit that arab philosophy has any merit. so i’ll just use this: after the fall of rome, the bulk of aristotle’s works were lost to the western world and were preserved only by islamic scholars. this explains why western thought initially was quite (neo)platonic… see st.augustine et al. following the crusades and the reconquista, aristotlean thought crept back into the west, mostly due to the spread of the falsafa movement and the actions of thomas aquinas. so if you’re a fan of america’s democratic institutions, you owe a debt of thanks to arab scholars like al-farabi, ibn rushd, and ibn sina for preserving aristotlean thought for locke et al to build upon.
“Then you admit that Arab government is nothing but evil, incompetent and intolerant. Nice!”
– i certainly said nothing of the sort. i’m just pointing out that you certainly wouldn’t like it if the shoe were on the other foot. the fact that you make general claims yet don’t want them to be universal makes you a hypocrite.
“No, fucktard…it’s called survival. It’s the muzlums who want to murder the infidel. Do you know what happened on 9/11? I’m sure you do, you arab, muzlum bastard!”
– um… if this was the case for all arabs, why didn’t 9/11 happen years earlier? why wouldn’t all muslim americans be committing terrorist acts? you’re generalizing in the worst way… a common trait of ignorant bigots.
“What a pile of shit!”
– really? in what way are you doubting that the usa was sick of casualties and quite worried about the communist threat? truman knew that the usa would need a military base to project power into the far east, especially with chiang kai-shek unable to fill the power vaccuum in china.
“Wikipedia is not to be trusted for reference material because, as I said, anyone can post their propaganda there.”
– which is precisely why i said they were “quick tertiary resources to get you started”.

ready5 on February 9, 2007 at 4:22 pm