Yeah…
mod
shut the fuck up
and really, if you can’t at least try an say something slightly intelligent or insightful, shut up. I also read a comment by one “the_man”
read what you posted
that’s really all i have to say to you
hypocrites
if these are the belifs of supposedly mature adults,
i think I’ll stay young (peterpancomplex)
if this woman really believes what she said…
wow.
I also doubt half of you who posted read the whole
shit filled blog
i mean really
im not even offended
just sad
and you should be too

Themachinegunopera on February 8, 2007 at 2:47 am

jasper_calhoun:
You are really out of it! You criticized me for what I said about Bacon Boy. (Or have you forgotten that already-if so, check out your previous posts).
I said that my comments about Bacon Boy are justified because he is disgusting, as is evident in his blasphemy video. You act indignant, call me childish, when you are actually a fraud. You don’t even bother to look at what you are criticizing me for.
I don’t know where you are from, but on this site we generally back up what we say, we don’t just make things up. This thread has degenerated due to the freaky atheists.
Anyway, the video is on his site , his link is above.
Or, if you can’t comprehend that, go on back to KOS kids where you can play with all the other haters.

CarpeDiem on February 8, 2007 at 2:53 am

CarpeDiem,
Oh, Gosh, I’m soooo sorry! I guess calling someone a fat pig is the height of rational, informed debate on this site. Thanks for proving what I said about the Fundies, though…

jasper_calhoun on February 8, 2007 at 2:57 am

jasper_calhoun:
I’ve helped you prove nothing, except that you are a fraud and make posts without thinking.
You sure have failed the atheist movement tonight!
There is nothing wrong with calling Bacon Boy fat.
Have you seen him? Oh, right..you didn’t even look at his site, you are bitching for no good reason.
You atheists sure are a fun group. Are you proud of “MOD” and his trash? He and you are great debaters. Go on, MARKOS is calling you, he wants you back.

CarpeDiem on February 8, 2007 at 3:04 am

CarpeDiem,
Yeah, I looked at his site.
He’s fat.
Gee, I guess that means you’re better than him. I’m in awe of your brilliant arguments.

jasper_calhoun on February 8, 2007 at 3:08 am

Now, I’m an Atheist and I am definitely not an American, even though I have lived there for ten weeks in 2003 (Dallas, TX) and therefore have my own experiences of how religious nutcases like Debbie Schlussel work, but I have to say that I can’t understand how on Earth there are people like Schlussel, who are so incredibly stupid in their opinions, which make no sense at all in any single way, babbling about their “facts” on a channel like CNN.
It just makes no sense.
CNN is supposed to be a news channel and having this awfully biased chat about how Atheism is a threat to the great society of Americaland just points out the exact problems you have in USA. Ignorance is a bliss and since Atheism is about IGNORING religion, NO MATTER WHAT RELIGION IT IS, I completely miss the point in this “Atheists are going to convert to Muslims and take over this country” crap.
Where have you been living, Debbie? In what kind of sick mind can one believe that those people, who are ignoring religion, would happily turn into one?
IT’S NOT THE RELIGION we are interested in, so HOWCOME DO YOU FUCKING THINK WE WOULD CONVERT INTO MUSLIMS? There are extreme people with extreme opinions and I think Debbie Schlussel IS AT LEAST AS DANGEROUS AS ANY OTHER RELIGIOUS ZEALOT. Believe me, FINLAND is not becoming a muslim country, BUT I know a lot of people who just don’t give a shit about religion. But we go give an awfully big pile of shit, when SOME FUCKING BITCH COMES AND TELLS US THAT WE ARE THE SCUM OF THE EARTH.
Why? What have we done? I’m a happy little programmer doing my job and not doing any suicide bombing against US troops. WHY DO YOU HATE US, Debbie? DIDN’T YOU HAVE ENOUGH TOYS TO PLAY WITH, WHEN YOU WERE A CHILD?
But, however, I have to say that I am proud to be an Atheist now, since I am officially the number one enemy of US and therefore I have achieved a lot in life already. So, thank you, Debbie. Have a nice one. Oh… And FUCK OFF, as well.

Ufomies on February 8, 2007 at 3:17 am

jasper_calhoun:
At least we can agree on one thing!
Yes, I’m better than BaconBoy and I bet you are too. Did you watch the video?
BTW, I wasn’t trying to make an argument-I was defending my opinion. Taking comments from other posters and putting them together to prove something about ‘fundies’ is not exactly thinking, is it?

CarpeDiem on February 8, 2007 at 3:20 am

Excuse me, mister…CarpeDiem
you should practice what you preach…
telling mister jasper_calhoun to actually read something?
Aside from his undeniably annoying spam, he posted a real comment and he’s not atheist.
Just a heads up…
As far as name calling…
have you not yet reached the stage where you can form full sentences to state you opinion on someone without using the words “fatty”?

Themachinegunopera on February 8, 2007 at 3:21 am

Will people please stop saying that atheists believe in nothing?
First of all, it’s impossible to have no beliefs so it’s kind of silly to say that. Beyond that, religious people need to realize that when you stop believing in a god your life doesn’t disintegrate. What mattered to you before – things like family, friends, and living a good life – still matter just as much as they did before.
Atheists can be family centered and live their life in agreement with Christian principles such as kindness and tolerance. I do it everyday… really.

Brian on February 8, 2007 at 3:21 am

Themachinegunopera:
I can barely write that name, what a wierd name.
I’m NOT preaching anything! What is wrong with you people? Stating an opinion is not preaching. You are entitled to your opinion.
I didn’t use the word “fatty” he did! Check the posts. I said BaconBoy was fat, which he is. Jasper agrees with me 🙂 And, yes, I asked Jasper to go back and check what he is referring to, before he criticizes me.

CarpeDiem on February 8, 2007 at 3:29 am

I think that Debbie is Jewish, which is fine. But aren’t a highly disproportionate number of ethnic Jews atheists? And isn’t Debbie saying that atheists are going to turn into Muslim terrorists?
So if we put 2 and 2 together, isn’t Debbie saying that Jews, as a group, represent one of America’s greatest Muslim terrorist threats?
Hey, I’m not agreeing with Debbie’s thinking, but it seems to be an inescapable conclusion of Debbie’s logic. Sounds rather sinister to me!

Ignatius on February 8, 2007 at 3:31 am

CarpeDiem,
If hateful, angry quotes about the “evil atheists” doesn’t prove something about the mindsets of some of these “Christians”, I don’t know what does. Just like your namecalling tells us something about you. Anyway, I’m signing off for the night. Feel free to rant away. Oh, and I’m losing my hair too, so feel free to call me a baldy doodoohead. That should earn you a few debating points.

jasper_calhoun on February 8, 2007 at 3:34 am

Oh, I forgot to say that Debbie is apparently either running extremely low on IQ or then just otherwise incapable of doing a simple search on YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiyJzWy3CDQ
Probably both. Or then she’s telling lies about not being able to find one on the net.

Ufomies on February 8, 2007 at 3:34 am

Ignatius:
YOU sound quite sinister.
I certainly hope you don’t have St. Ignatius as your namesake. I don’t think he would approve of your drivel.

CarpeDiem on February 8, 2007 at 3:35 am

First, the ad hominem:
Ms. Schlussel has clearly been cribbing the style of Ann Coulter, having realized that, sadly, for a thin blonde woman in the United States, once the attention-winning limits of modern cosmetic technology have been stretched past their breaking point, the only way she can continue to enjoy the cosmocentric position to which her younger days may have made her feel entitled is to utter something unequivocally insane under the pitiable assumption that any attention is good attention.
Now, the response proper:
The United States is a Christian nation in precisely the same way that it is a White nation, or a Male nation, or, as some would have claimed until quite recently, a Republican nation. Tyranny of the majority was one of the most important concerns of the nation’s founders, and a tendency they strove earnestly to hobble. They didn’t get it completely right from the outset, but the foundation they laid was for a society where blacks, hispanics, women, democrats, libertarians, jews, catholics, buddhists and even atheists are able to act as full participants in society, not marginalized groups tolerated at the sufferance of a polarized majority. This is the promise of America, and the core of its strength, a strength atrophied in the recently fashionable bigotry of extremist right-wing Americans.
Argument from subversion is the most natural and common tool of the bigot. It exists in the repertoire of every species of hatemonger. The racist claims that “inferior” races breed more quickly than the “pure” race. The homophobe invents a conspiracy of all homosexuals to “convert” straight children. The religious zealot describes how much more zealous and intolerant another faith is. The argument in all cases is the same: if The Good, Pure People are not sufficiently hateful of the Tainted Outsiders (with “hate” mislabeled as “strength”), then They will outmultiply and overtake Us, while We, with our naive aspirations to morality and principled behavior, won’t have strength or numbers left to resist them.
Such an argument is a base, shameful thing. It is the province of fearful, irrational animals, not of human beings. Humanity, that nobility to which we must aspire or perish, must judge creatures such as Ms. Schlussel to be an abomination, a retrograde blight on everything we are and may hope one day to become. In her barely-coherent rambling she insists that our salvation from barbarism is to immerse ourselves in that same barbarism. If we are better barbarians than those she claims are standing at the gates, then, goes the argument, we will “win.”
Ms. Schlussel would damn us all, so long as her particular flavor of hatred, and not some other, emerges victorious to enslave humanity forever. I fear creatures such as this will always exist within our species, provided they do not succeed in driving us to extinction, but I at least dream of a society where they find their better interests lie in not spewing such evil so shamelessly.

Gelf on February 8, 2007 at 3:38 am

I’d first off like to express my disgust with those who are crapflooding your blog. I think that atheists make the most noise about Christianity simply because it is the majority religion here in the United States. I personaly would have a problem with anybody being pressured to say any prayer. My personal feelings are that religion is no diffrent from superstition. For the most part, I don’t have a problem with people having these beliefs. What I do have a problem with is when anyone trys to push these beliefs on others (this includes athiests activly trying to convert anyone else). I’m seriously offended by your assertion that Athiests are likely to become muslim extremists. I think Athiests living in America are one of the LEAST likely groups to convert to ANY religion, simply because these people simply don’t like to take things on faith alone.

geekman42 on February 8, 2007 at 3:42 am

jasper:
Bald is not all bad you know 🙂
I called him fat because he is fat, among a lot of other things. Ciao!

CarpeDiem on February 8, 2007 at 3:44 am

I am almost as appalled by the Atheist response as I am by you and your attitude. Almost. You are proof that the persecution is real. You have no understanding of Atheists at all, but this does not prevent you from running us into the ground on the basis of uninformed stereotypes and personal dislike. It is very unfortunate that all most people know about Atheists is the response to hatred such as yours.
Can you imagine what it is like to be treated as an evil dishonest person by EVERYONE, no matter how much integrity you display? I have had people tell me what a good man I am so many times that I am sick of hearing it, because these same people can’t bring themselves to TRUST me. They tell me I’m a good man, and they watch me, waiting for the evil to show. They KNOW it must be there. Have you any idea how this affects a person’s relations with their fellow man? Can you comprehend the loneliness, the frustration, and the resentment caused by such treatment?
This is why so few of us are really open with our beliefs. I only know one other Atheist in my area. I knew this man for a year before I knew he was an Atheist. Atheists make up 1 – 4% of the population, so I must know more of them. I suspect that many of us know Atheists who just never told us their views. Look at your attitude, and see if you can figure out why they keep it a secret.
Yes, I learned of the CNN report from a blog. I threw my TV out years ago. The blog I saw said nothing about the report other than “CNN report on Atheist persecution”. The blogger simply posted the YouTube video. As I watched the report, I felt great relief. I thought a step had been taken towards understanding. I thought I might actually see the day when I would not have to feel so defiant for simply requiring evidence for the things I base my life decisions on. I don’t WANT to be defiant. I don’t want to be ‘the Atheist’ everywhere I go. I just want to live my life in accordance with my conscience. What is so wrong with that? Is this something I should have to hide? I was foolish enough to believe that national television was actually trying to tell people that the abuse I face for my integrity was wrong.
I should have known better. The panel discussion that followed was just like so many reactions I’ve faced when someone new discovered I was an Atheist. I’ve heard these same arguments in bars, in smoking facilities at manufacturing plants, in the homes of rednecks down south, on CB radios as truck drivers added Atheists to the list of people they hate, in churches, in offices, and I’ve heard them from the people who supposedly represent my views in our government. You should be proud of the originality and intelligence of your comments.
It’s no wonder that some of us have responded in anger and frustration. I had to wait a day before responding to you, or I would have done the same. We grow weary of this treatment. The surprise is not that some of us are angry, the surprise is that all 3 million of us are not furious every moment of every day about the way we are slandered and mistreated.
No other group of people tolerates such treatment with as little complaint as Atheists. You claim that the handful of responses you received proves your judgment about all 3 million of us? What a silly notion. Most of the Atheists who saw your stupidity simply ignored it. We’re used to it. It happens every day.

SedroRay on February 8, 2007 at 4:06 am

Ok, I watched Zahn clips. Big deal.
Ad feminam comment:
If you want to deride a blonde-haired woman for being less than compelling intellect, start with anchorblonde Zahn who played dumb (i.e., impartial) while acting as moderator of the sound-byte dreiven “debate.”
Pro feminam comment:
I dare anyone leaving or approving of derogatory comments here 1) to attach their real name to them and 2) to direct similarly derogatory comments to that other CNN guest panelist, Karen Hunter, who shares Debbie’s contempt for atheists’ complaints.

Jeremiah on February 8, 2007 at 4:08 am

Having watched this debacle unfold live on the television and seeing Debbie ‘The Third Reich Should Have Killed Muslims’ Sclussel make a complete ass of herself on international live television, I am eagerly waiting Richard Dawkins’ complete and utter annihilation of her in the same format.
I am expecting something resembling Richard Feynman’s complete and utter annihilation of pseudoscientific claims.
It will be spectacular.

eloH on February 8, 2007 at 5:02 am

Wow, there is having an opinion and then there is being a total ass. A few of you seriously need to read what you wrote. And you DOUBT that she got hatemail? Heck, some of you are posting pretty hateful. Sad I think.

Highrise on February 8, 2007 at 5:05 am

Debbie, nice wind-up job. I’m sure you’ll get a couple of juicy interviews/ high-paid newspaper articles out of it. You clearly aren’t stupid, just very tabloid in your style, like the very nastiest and most insidious of the British papers (The Daily Mail, The Daily Express).
I don’t know where you get the impression that Europe is ‘turning Islamist’. I’ve lived in Britain all my life, and have travelled extensively in Europe, Asia, and America, and I really don’t get back to the UK and think ‘Wow, check out how many Muslims there are!’. Just because there were/ are Europeans who questioned the wisdom of messing around in Middle Eastern affairs it doesn’t make us Islamist!
Atheists are frustrated by the actions and impositions of theists, and what is done in the name of ‘God’. Most just seem to want to live and let live, but the aggressive attitude of so many religious people these days – particular in America and the Middle East – really kind of makes it hard for atheists to live their lives in peace. You’re obviously witnessing an outpouring of that frustrating here and now.
The only thing that’s coordinated this outpouring is that someone posted the CNN piece on YouTube, and someone else put it on the Digg site. I think it’s fair to say that the unpleasant things that were said about atheists were enough to trigger the reaction that’s on this site. Again, I think you did a nice wind-up job suggesting that it might have somehow been coordinated by a ‘higher power’ (that’ll be King Atheist, then, in his mighty Castle of Disbelief).
The comments substituting other groups for ‘atheist’ are pretty spot-on; really, you weren’t that far from Nazi territory with some of what was said.
Lastly, I don’t know American history that well, but I’m under the impression that Jefferson et al were quite deliberate about the separation of church and state. And I believe that it was during the McCarthy era that ‘in God we trust’ and ‘one nation under God’ were added to the American dream.
Don’t play the agitation game for self-promotion – it’s not nice!

kungfool on February 8, 2007 at 5:15 am

Ive read most of the quotes and i must say, save the immaturity of mod, the christians on this site are quite hateful. Why am i so hated here? Sure america was founded by a group of people being pursecuted against due to their religion, but look what they did when they got here. Is the murder of half the indian population christian? Read the journal of the puritans. You had Mary Rowlandson praising the lord for the chance to wipe these dark skined demons off the face of the earth. Thankfully, we had openminded deist founding fathers who accepted people enough to give us freedom OF and FROM religion.
I love this country….i just hate seeing it turn into something that it was never suppose to be.

ajoftswa on February 8, 2007 at 5:47 am

halturner,
your point has been made.

ajoftswa on February 8, 2007 at 5:50 am

“The opposite of the religious fanatical is not the fanatical atheist but the gentle cynic who cares not whether there is a god or not.”
Eric Hoffer “The True Believer”
-I do not consider myself an atheist, but rather one of the indifferent. I deny the existance of a deity, but with quiet passivity. I suppose that statement is moot considering I’m writing this, but I do chime in from time to time. The following are some of my thoughts. I make no intention to offend anyone, though it is apparent that these issues are not afforded casual discourse.
-I believe religion is meritious; dare I say utopian, in its intention. Charity, personal accountability, and reason are by no means abhorrent, they are virtues. Does not every faith attest to these principles? Are they not moral doctrine to be held with the same heartfelt regard as sacred text and idols? I often speak of atheists as religious people. Spirituality and God(s) are not necessary prerequisites for religion. Religion is any belief or idea that impassions the heart, envigorates the being to where the exchange of word is frivolous to the force of action. It is human. By reviewing some of the posts on this page and digg (I’m a frequent visitor) my comments would appear draped in validity.
-Atheist’s are true believers. Upon introspective, it may become clear to many that they are bonded closer to jews and gentiles than comfort would allow. Many atheists may see the religious institutions of this nation as pilferers of liberal autonomy, the fruit of our revolution and history. Conversely it would appear that those institutions and individuals loathe the atheist with similar accord. The cycle is enduring to no end and engaged with wreckless fervor by both camps. We will always disagree, but will we tolerate these disagreements as inherent flaws of coexistance?
-There are so many problems that we face. These matters are of no pertinence to the annals of history. The episodic should not outweigh what will be. We are blindly distracted by our own ignorance as what could have been silently fades into oblivion.
-Debbie, please don’t consider atheists an enemy comparable to the fundamentalist islamic fanatic. I hope that you understand that many believe in the same ideals (liberty, democracy, ethics) that you fear they seek to destroy. I apologize if I’m misconstruing your beliefs, though I imagine you hold some as dear as I.
-I have to study tomorrow so I’ll part with one final thought that I’ve had as of late: If blame falls on the christians for the decay of our society, they find solace blaming amorality. If on the atheists, will they not blame god?
-Hope to see you in Montana.

Chris from Montana on February 8, 2007 at 6:04 am

Ive read most of the quotes and i must say, save the immaturity of mod, the christians on this site are quite hateful. Why am i so hated here? Sure america was founded by a group of people being pursecuted against due to their religion, but look what they did when they got here. Is the murder of half the indian population christian? Read the journal of the puritans. You had Mary Rowlandson praising the lord for the chance to wipe these dark skined demons off the face of the earth. Thankfully, we had openminded deist founding fathers who accepted people enough to give us freedom OF and FROM religion.

ajoftswa on February 8, 2007 at 6:14 am

I’d just like to point out that, if Muslim extremists had their way, atheists would be the FIRST people getting their heads chopped off. Islam has some history of (grudging) tolerance for Christianity and Judaism, since all three religions worship the same, single God, and share many traditions and much history. The sort of strict Islam followed by al-Qa`ida has NO tolerance for atheism. Public declarations of atheism are CRIMINAL is some Muslim countries, sometimes punishable by death!
So trust me, atheists have NO desire to support extremist Islam. They have more reason to fear it than do Christians, and the Islamic extremists wouldn’t WANT their support. Atheists oppose theocracy, whether it is Muslim theocracy, Christian theocracy, Buddhist theocracy, or whatever. It is very faulty logic to conclude that just because a couple of atheists became Muslim extremists that there is some sort of connection between Muslim extremism and atheism. More Christians convert to Islam than do atheists, I am sure.
Finally, it is worth mentioning that one of the basic principles behind separation of religion and government is to protect RELIGION. The first people to protest against prayer in public schools were not atheists; they were Catholics who didn’t want their children forced to recite Protestant prayers. The first legal objection to the Pledge of Allegiance in schools was not lodged by atheists, but by Jehovah’s Witnesses, who considered it a form of idolatry. Keeping government out of religion and religion out of government is GOOD for religion. One reason religion continues to thrive in the US is because it is free from government interference. Once the government starts tinkering with faith, faith is diminished.
Remember that in Europe, where you say “Christianity is rapidly dying,” many countries still have state-funded churches and official religions. The fact that the Church of England gets tax money hasn’t kept the British believing in God (less than 50% do, IIRC). Do you want your prayers being written by the same people who run Medicare?
Atheists, for the most part, don’t care when or how or if you pray, as long as you don’t make it mandatory, and you give ALL beliefs an equal chance to be expressed. The day a Muslim tries to FORCE an American public-school kid to pray to Mecca, or insists on displaying to Qur’an ALONE in public buildings, I’m sure the ACLU will be the first in line to sue. In the meantime, they are busy defending the rights of CHRISTIANS to protest against acceptance of homosexuality ( http://www.aclu.org/religion/frb/28163prs20070129.html ) and to sing religious songs in school ( http://www.aclu.org/religion/schools/27673prs20061212.html ).

blackjack on February 8, 2007 at 6:23 am

I was wondering. If atheists just need to shut up, Debbie, maybe you would like to debate Richard Dawkins. Sam Harris, or Dennis Dennet and shut up the mainstream of Atheism? If you are so certain, or knowledgable of your faith, surely you wouldnt dream they would embarrass you on national tv.

ajoftswa on February 8, 2007 at 6:29 am

First of all, a youtube copy of your shameless rip on atheists has appeared. The fact that you can’t find it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. (I will add links here later). I, personally, had the privilege of seeing your extreme prejudice go undisputed.
As for your claims that atheists are future muslims, and that all muslims are america-hating extremists, I will say the same thing I say to those who claim that there is a god above us: evidence please. If you can cite reputable statistics showing that a high percentage of atheists turn into muslims later in their life, I might believe you. Otherwise, your claims are exactly that: claims. Currently, there is as much proof that atheists are weak-minded future muslims as there is that jews are greedy maniplators or that blacks are of inferior intelligence. You might understand why I don’t rush to believe you.
Speaking of which, I have to wonder how you, as a jew, would feel if a similar panel, assembled from a member of the KKK, a Neo-Nazi and a holocaust denier was asked “why do jews garner so much hate?” I doubt you’d be very pleased. Still, you have no qualms with your segment. Not to say that I am immune to hypocrisy, but that is its embodiment.

Noam Samuel on February 8, 2007 at 7:25 am

Debbie, the CNN video is here.
I know a fair number of atheists. They reject Islam as much as they do Christianity; to the extent you might get an atheist to think about anything even vaguely resembling religion, you may be able to get them interested in Buddhism (specifically Zen Buddhism). The young and/or silly may adhere to Ayn Rand for a while as well.
Finally, extremists seem to do a great job of finding each other. You articulated a rather extreme (imho) viewpoint in a very public place; the result is that extremists who disagree with you came to visit your blog and inbox. Not really a shocker. Personally, I find the whole thread funny and sad at once.

Didgeridoo on February 8, 2007 at 7:40 am

What if I told you I wasn’t an atheist but a secular humanist?

Crioca on February 8, 2007 at 8:40 am

Then what if I said that I was an atheist *and* a secular humanist?

Crioca on February 8, 2007 at 8:42 am

The United States is not a christian nation because it does not behave in a way that Jesus Christ would endorse. I can say I’m a Red-Tailed Hawk, but since I have no feathers and cannot fly, the lie will become obvious soon enough. Such is the case with the claim that the U.S. is a christian nation. 85% of it’s citizens may pay lip service to it and say “I”m a christian!”, but the fact of the matter is that the U.S. as a nation, and it’s citizens individually, behave in a manner that would make Jesus Christ ashamed that his name is associated with it. The U.S. is governed by Greed, Envy, Pride, Wrath, Lust, Gluttony, and Sloth. Forgiveness and Love, the true behavior endorsed by Jesus Christ, are foreign concepts to the American people, and yourself in particular Debbie. Say what you will about being a christian nation, the fact of the matter is, it is a nation of materially enamored automatons who care only about their possessions and wealth.

evilunleashed on February 8, 2007 at 8:47 am

um, muslims arent the enemy either baby. why dont u come by to Baruch College in NY and tell all the kids there that muslims are enemy, along with a couple godless heathens. it is simply counterproductive to be so ignorant in your rants. This is not about whether the US is a Christian Nation, or whether the child rearing techniques of some hippy turn kids into taliban. Muslims are not the enemy, no more then hippies or yuppies or people who like putting sweaters on a dog. the enemy, my dear intrepid journalist, is ignorance.

cxxfxxh on February 8, 2007 at 9:02 am

this is to all the people who claim that america is a christian nation
A poll done by Harper’s Bazaar ( http://www.harpers.org/ExcerptTheChristianParadox.html )takes a closer look at americas christian population and discovers just how deep our nations devotion to God really is. The poll finds;
Only four in ten Americans can name more than four of the Ten Commandments
Astonishingly, even to me, only half can name even one of the four gospels
12% of Americans – which is something in excess of thirty million people – believe that Joan of Arc was Noah’s wife.
And finally, three-quarters of Americans – very nearly the nation’s entire Christian population – believe that the Bible teaches that “God helps those who help themselves”. This maxim was actually uttered by Benjamin Franklin, and appears nowhere in scripture
Another theological study ( http://www.theologicalstudies.citymax.com/page/page/1573625.htm )goes further into depth about what American Christians believe. This is what they found:
When given thirteen basic teachings from the Bible, only 1% of adult believers firmly embraced all thirteen as being biblical perspectives
Less than one out of every ten believers possess a biblical worldview as the basis for his or her decision-making or behavior
One-third could not identify Matthew as an apostle from a list of New Testament names
When asked to locate the biblical book supplying a given story, one-third could not find Paul’s travels in Acts, half did not know that the Christmas story was in Matthew, half did not know that the Passover story was in Exodus.
This biblical illeteracy does not speak well for religion and its supposed hold on our nation. After all, how deep can ones devotion be if they have not taken the time to learn even the most basic facts about their holy book? I will admit that the bible is a poorly written, tedious bore of a book, but that excuse should not exist for devout children of God.
What these studies and polls really show, is that a majority of people who don’t read the bible are religious. Furthermore, with such an ignorance of its contents, religious people who have not read the bible often turn away from Christianity upon reading it Take a look at these Deconversion stories for proof. Those stories show that the authors were Christian until they actually read the Bible, and discovered for themselves the atrocities, absurdities, and contradictions it contains.
While i am sure this next bit will offend some of you, it bears mentioning none the less. This study shows that there is an inverse relationship between religiosity and intelligence.
In 1986, Burnham P. Beckwith, wrote on “The Effect of Intelligence on Religious Faith” for the sceptic magazine Free inquiry. He summarized studies on religiosity and its relation with attributes that he considered positively linked with intelligence. The conclusion was that all but four of the forty-three polls listed seemed to indicate that the amount of religious faith vary inversely with intelligence (for American students and adults). Although conceding that it was easy to find fault with the studies he reviewed, “for all were imperfect”, Burnham contended that those studies, taken together, provided strong evidence for an inverse correlation between Intelligence and Religious Faith in America.
In other words, the more religious you are, the less smart you are.
That statement is further backed up by a study of SAT scores among religious and non-religious people. (taken from the above link)
Regan Clarke investigated the issue. In the study, religious behavior and the idea of prayer fulfillment were found to have a mild negative correlation with self-reported Quantitative SAT (QSAT) scores. Given the results, the author suggests that the negative associations among QSAT, religiosity, and prayer fulfillment may be due to (a lack of) learned skills in reasoning
Though they stress mild, the negative correlation is there. The more religious you are, the less developed your quantatative and reasoning skills are. After all, if you take so much of life on faith, you dont really have to figure anything out do you?
I could ramble on about this for hours, however i will make my final point. the fires of evolution have spent over four billion years forging us into an engine of staggering complexity and computational power. We have been given a unique and priceless privilege, a gift unlike anything else in the known universe; the ability to use rational thought. To understand this heritage can only uplift us, and those who would assert that we can accomplish nothing on our own without the help of fading shadows of superstition, are only cheating themselves by replacing a greater wonder with a far lesser one.

androo on February 8, 2007 at 9:13 am

Carpe Dieme, you are of the wilful ignorant ilk.
Yes, I can stand to lose 15-20 pounds. What does that have to do with my posts?
The video you refer to is for the Blasphemy Challenge, it has nothing to do with this topic, and I labeled the video “comedy” on Youtube.
My last post on my blog is completely on topic though, if you are capable of intellectual debate you should be only attacking it:
http://baconeatingatheistjew.blogspot.com/

Bacon Eating Atheist Jew on February 8, 2007 at 9:20 am

Wow, you truly are a hate monger. Looking at your statement, you clearly have a hatred of Muslims.
You hate muslims so much in fact that you have to lump Atheists (not muslims) as more or less the same group, and as co-conspirators against America.
I was deeply offended by the statements that you made on CNN. I watched the video on YouTube and did not see it live. So, you are ignorant regarding the availability of the video. I was compelled to write Paula Zahn Now with a letter regarding my disappointment.
I did not spam your inbox. I did not even think to write you. Until I saw on Digg that not only did you not think about your previous statements and perhaps understand that they make you appear like an ignorant racist and biggot.
Not all muslims are anti-semitic. Not all atheists are anti-Christian. My utter lack of faith is why I am an atheist.
I personally disapprove of the “new atheist” movement because they have taken the term atheism and applied it to some spaghetti monster spewing diatribe against all religion. Not all atheists are like this. You clearly are a sorry ignorant excuse of a human that cannot take the time to see this or understand this.

DrBull on February 8, 2007 at 9:25 am

I’M SORRY EVERYONE. PLEASE STOP EMAILING AND CALLING ME. I CAN’T TAKE IT ANYMORE.
EVER SINCE I HEARD THE SOUND OF MY ANNOYING VOICE AFTER WATCHING THE CNN VIDEO THAT I THOUGHT DIDN’T EXIST ON THE INTERWEBS, I CRIED MYSELF THROUGH 30 BAGELS. DO I REALLY SOUND THAT ANNOYING?
ALSO, FOR THE RECORD, MY PENIS IS SMALLER THAN ANN COULTERS.. BUT I DO THAT THING WITH MY TONGUE, AND SHE LOVES IT WHEN I DO THAT.
ALSO TO EVERYONE AT DIGG: I’M SORRY. YOU GUYS ROCK.
I’M GOING NOW BECAUSE I’VE BEEN SHUTDOWN FASTER THAN WINDOWS 98. I DENOUNCE BEING A JEW, I’M NOW JUST JEW-ISH.
OH, ALSO, YOU’RE THE MAN NOW DOG.
YOU LOSE. GOOD DAY SIR!

DebbieSchlussel on February 8, 2007 at 9:51 am

I had the priviledge of watching both segments yesterday on YouTube. Everybody has opinions and I have no problem with opinions.
However to belittle any population group based on faith (Atheists have as much faith in their beliefs as Theists), simply perpetuates ignorance as opposed to meaningful discussion. I studied religion in college, married a religious lady, and have great respect for the beliefs of others. I find the general principles of Christianity provide a reasonable temple for a good society.
I also find no need to believe in an invisible man, no need to curb the reality of death by promising eternal life, and find justification for tax exempt status based on religious values offensive. I have no problem with the text on our money, holiday displays (like like to give and receive too), and I enjoy Christmas trees and the Easter Bunny.
However “beliefs” are best taught within the family structure and kept out of our public schools. I think that people engaged in public discussion should, from an ethical perspective, at least make an honest effort to not belittle the personal beliefs of others.

tnthub on February 8, 2007 at 10:08 am

I had the priviledge of watching both segments yesterday on YouTube. Everybody has opinions and I have no problem with opinions.
However to belittle any population group based on faith (Atheists have as much faith in their beliefs as Theists), simply perpetuates ignorance as opposed to meaningful discussion. I studied religion in college, married a religious lady, and have great respect for the beliefs of others. I find the general principles of Christianity provide a reasonable temple for a good society.
I also find no need to believe in an invisible man, no need to curb the reality of death by promising eternal life, and find justification for tax exempt status based on religious values offensive. I have no problem with the text on our money, holiday displays (like like to give and receive too), and I enjoy Christmas trees and the Easter Bunny.
However “beliefs” are best taught within the family structure and kept out of our public schools. I think that people engaged in public discussion should, from an ethical perspective, at least make an honest effort to not belittle the personal beliefs of others.

tnthub on February 8, 2007 at 10:09 am

Firstly, I would like to posit that atheists are people. I hope you can accept this, however much you may dislike atheists. Secondly, I would like to posit that many people are stupid. This includes plenty of atheists, Christians, Jews, Muslims, and any other variety of person out there. You have unfortunately managed to attract a slew of the stupid atheists to this post who feel the urge to comment-bomb your page with the word “whore” repeated hundreds of times. This is, I hope we can agree, stupid. Hopefully you can gather from this that I do not think that anyone who is an atheist is automatically super cool and smart, and hopefully you might be willing to consider for a moment that I’m at least sort of cool and at least somewhat intelligent. Unlike the idiots above, I don’t feel the urge to yell at you. That’s unproductive and won’t make either of us feel any better or learn anything.
I would like to make a few points. I will first make them succinctly, and then explain them.
1 – The segment is available to watch online.
2 – Atheism is not equivalent to, a preliminary stage of, or an indicator of an inevitable path to Islam.
3 – America is not a Christian nation.
4 – We’re not being obedient to a higher power by coming here to “attack” you.
5 – It is a logical fallacy to conclude that just because there exist people who were brought up by atheists or hippies who became Muslim that anyone who is brought up in such a manner will end up Muslim.
6 – Not all Muslims are evil.
7 – Atheists are not specifically ant-Christian.
8 – Atheist don’t believe “nothing.”
To elaborate:
1 – The segment is available online. Try http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiyJzWy3CDQ&eurl= for the first half and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPHnXrU5JzU&eurl= for the second half.
2 – Atheism does not equal or imply Islam. Atheism is the lack of belief in a deity. Call that deity God, Yahweh, Krishnah, Allah, Zeus… Whatever you call it, atheists don’t believe in it. Allah is inarguably a theistic concept, and as such, atheists don’t believe in it. Of course it is perfectly possible for an atheist to become a Muslim. Or a Christian, or a Jew, or a Hindu. It is also perfectly possible for any of these to become an atheist, or to switch to a different religion. Atheists are most likely to remain atheists, not to become Muslims.
3 – America is not a Christian nation. I’m not sure precisely what you mean when you claim it is. You could either be saying that our founding fathers founded this nation as a Christian nation, or that our nation has become a Christian nation. If you mean that America is and has always been a Christian nation, that is patently false. In 1796, the United States signed a treaty with Tripoli. This treaty states among other things that “the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.” John Adams read this treaty in its entirety in front of Congress. Congress ratified it unanimously, which was only the third time Congress had done anything at all unanimously. Obviously it was a point of little controversy. If, however, you are saying that the United States has since become a Christian nation, then its founding state is of little importance. However, this nation as its foundation has the Constitution. If we remove a piece of that Constitution by any means other than official amendment, we are not really America anymore. The Bill of Rights is a part of the constitution. The first amendment guarantees, among other things, freedom of religion. And actually, this is the precise same thing as freedom from religion. If you can’t fathom this, imagine another freedom we all know and love: freedom of speech. It would be ridiculous to imply that we don’t have freedom from speech. It would be absolutely absurd to insist that we have the freedom of speech as long as we’re saying something. It’s equally absurd to insist that we have the freedom of religion as long as we believe in a god. If we’re even going to pretend to be a nation with the Constitution as our foundation, we have to accept that freedom from religion is as legitimate a right as the freedom of religion.
4 – We’re not being obedient to a higher power by coming here to “attack” you. So an atheist blog talked about the CNN segment, and suggested that we write CNN to complain and come here to complain. If these blogs had merely talked about the segment, we still would have written to express our outrage. It’s not as though we have to be told that we are outraged. We actually have our own thoughts, as unbelievable as it may seem. Our brains work. I don’t want to suggest that an atheist is some sort of ultimate rebel who will never obey a higher power. Most atheists, just like most other people, are law-abiding citizens. I think that proves the point.
5 – It is a logical fallacy to conclude that just because there exist people who were brought up by atheists or hippies who became Muslim that anyone who is brought up in such a manner will end up Muslim. It is about as fallacious as saying “John and Jane both fell out of trees when they were three, and now they both have PhDs and are making $93000 per year, therefore anyone who falls out of a tree when he or she is three will end up highly educated and paid well!” I hope you recognize the ridiculousness.
6 – Not all Muslims are evil. Please don’t construe this as my having any special attachment or special desire to defend Islam rather than any other religion. You simply seem to have a special desire to attack it, and I figure it needs some defense. Atrocities have been committed in Christianity’s name (crusades, inquisition, etc.). Atrocities have been committed in Islam’s name (9/11, etc.). Atrocities have been committed in the name of just about everything imaginable. Not all Christians think the inquisition was a good thing (indeed, very few of them think that). Not all Muslims think that 9/11 was a good thing (indeed, very few of them think that). Muslims are not any more horrendous than any other group of people.
7 – Atheists are not specifically anti-Christian. We generally think that all theists are ridiculous, not just Christians. The reason we appear to be anti-Christian is simply that our society is predominantly Christian (note there is a difference between our nation being Christian and the people of our nation being largely Christian). Think of it this way. If you were being mauled by a bear and stung by an ant, which one would you be trying to get away from? I’d wager you’d be trying to get away from the bear. It’s a lot stronger and can as such do you a lot more harm. Similarly with Christianity in our society. It’s the strongest, it is in positions of power, and it is definitely at times attacking us. That’s why we seem to care more about it than Islam or another religion. If I lived in the UAE, I would care more about Islam, as that would be the most pressing threat to my atheism. I personally, just for the record, am just as outraged by a Muslim prayer at a school as I would be by a Christian prayer at a school.
8 – Atheists don’t believe “nothing.” We believe in plenty of things. We believe on fairly good evidence that when we drop something, it will fall. We believe on fairly good evidence that species, given enough time, will change somewhat to be better suited to their respective environments. We believe in all sorts of the same mundanities that almost every human believes. We simply don’t happen to believe that there’s an old man in the sky who created the world, tells us what we have to do, and will do something with us after we die. One’s opinion on theism isn’t one’s only belief.
I’d also like to address another logical misstep you seem to make. It seems that you think that if we take “In God We Trust” off of our money or “under God” out of our pledge, we are stepping on religion’s toes. This is unequivocally not the case. Saying “In God We Trust” is stating an affirmative belief in God. Not saying “In God We Trust” is -not- stating an affirmative belief in God, but rather stating absolutely nothing about God. We don’t want to say “In God We Don’t Trust” or “one nation that is most definitely not under God.” That’s not the point. We just don’t want our government saying anything about God at all. That doesn’t imply that the government is atheist, and that doesn’t imply that its people are either. People in that case would be perfectly free to be atheist or theist without being attacked in any way.
I’m sorry for all the immature people comment-bombing your post with trifling inanities.

hynkle on February 8, 2007 at 10:36 am

tnthub, I agree with most of your post but you are wrong about Atheism being a faith.
I am an Atheist because I have concluded that there is absolutely no proof that God exists, and there is proof that man makes up Gods (historically we can look at any religion for this). There is no reason for me to believe in a God or Gods the same as there is no reason for me to believe in the Tooth Fairy.
Is not believing in the Tooth Fairy a faith?

Bacon Eating Atheist Jew on February 8, 2007 at 10:36 am

America was founded on freedom, not on religion.

stoobe on February 8, 2007 at 10:37 am

All the comments about your ignorance on the subject have already been said multiple times it seems, so I will comment on Atheists not beleiving in anything, as this statement is completely false and couldn’t be further from the truth.
While it is true we do not believe in a divine being, that does not in anyway mean that we don’t beleive in truth, justice, morality, and the overall goodness of people. Just because you do not beleive in a god doesn’t all of a sudden make these virtues go away, or any harder to follow. Sure christian, muslim, jewish, buddhist teachings are good sources for a moral base, but they are all dogma based on basic societal principals that has been morphed to fit into their particular religions agenda, and ALL have changed over the years to better fit into the current state of their followers.
When you come out and tell Atheists to shut up, do you think they actually will because you say so? like anyone, they will defend themselves, as you made such bold statements last week, i’m sorry that feel like your being attacked, but well like everyone else, your accountable for your actions.
Its just too bad that you have a such a bigot attitude towards this group, and you should realize, that most atheist hold alot of the same family and moral values as you do. and like any group there are always ignorant people within, the bes thing to do is just ignore them (i am talking about the unproductive, spammers and attackers on the post) as they dont contribute to overall society, but there are people with real views and valid points, just keep everything in mind.

pepsi_romo on February 8, 2007 at 10:46 am

You are a sad excuse of a person. You are making blind accusations about a segment of the population you know nothing about. It is people like you who are no better than Muslim extremists (not redundant). You blindly judge a group of people without even taking the time to learn anything about them. It is people like you who will lead this country down a path to destruction from your over zealous hatred of anything that is not like you. This country was NOT founded as a Christian nation. Most of the founding fathers were inded Christians but they knew the importance of seperating church and state. When you have a state sanctioned religion you end up with Iran, Iraq, any of the Middle East countries. While I am not an athiest I do not agree with “they need to shut up.” People like you need to shut up and learn to respect, not just tolerate, other peoples views, wether you agree with them or not. THAT is what this country was founded on, not some fictional collection of stories.

Joe on February 8, 2007 at 11:47 am

Ironic, isn’t it, that the African-American woman had the gall to tell another minority to “just shut-up”. I wonder, would she have obeyed such a thing 50 years ago?
I have to thank both Debbie and that other woman for making me get off my complacent rear and join American Atheists. Clearly, we need to be shouting louder as it is also clear that theists don’t have a clue what atheism is about. I wonder, where do theists get all these goofy conspiracy theories about atheists? We simply don’t believe in your gods. That’s it. We don’t hate you, we don’t want to silence you, we’re not out to destroy religion. In fact, I could not possibly care less what goofy fairytales you want to believe in, insofar as you don’t try to legislate me into believing the same nonsense.
But no, I will not “just shut up”. Hooray for free speech! How utterly anti-American to tell someone else to “just shut up”.
~~~~~~~~~
“Conversely, there is absolutely no proof that God does NOT exist. Hence, this is a matter of belief.”
There is also no proof that there isn’t a diamond the size of Texas buried in your anus. But, I think it’s pretty safe to say there isn’t. Such is the case with your gods. Extraordinary claims required extraordinary evidence. After thousands of years and thousands of gods, there hasn’t been proof of one of them. And no, holy texts do not count as proof of anything other than the human tendency to believe whatever is placed in front of them.
P.s. Debbie – this country already has an Anne Coulter and a Michelle Malkin. This brainless bigot act you’ve got going is deriviative. There’s nothing worse than being unoriginal.

Vera Venom on February 8, 2007 at 11:54 am

First we had Islamo-fascists now Atheo-fascists? I submit that Debbie Schlussel and her ilk are either JudeoChristo-fascists or Christo-fascists you can take your pick. After all they are the ones that are screaming “Shut up!” and THEY are the ones that are opposed to the constitution and the separation of Church and State.

Whatever on February 8, 2007 at 12:19 pm

Nowhere on the net, huh? Notice the date that it was posted was Tuesday, February 06, 2007, genius.

Zadic on February 8, 2007 at 1:07 pm

I want to address the whole atheists turning into Muslim extremists thing. First as far as I know John Walker Lind was catholic before he converted to Islam. Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Penn Jillette, Angelina Jolie all atheists, Salman Rushdie raised Muslim and now an atheist. Not exactly a rush of really famous atheists turning to Islam but a famous atheist who was Muslim. Not a representative sample to be sure but then neither were the two you gave. Since we atheists do not believe in ANY gods or goddesses why you think we would be at all attracted to Islam is a complete mystery to me. I foe one oppose all theocratic movements by they Christian, Muslim, Hindu or anything else. I would never deny any one the right to practice whatever superstition they want but when someone uses their religious beliefs as a basis for making laws that threaten me and my community (I am a bisexual trans-woman) then I will fight back. I expect laws to be based on rational reasoning not on three thousand year old fairy tales. Religion is not immune from criticism when it move from the private to the public sphere.

Natasha Yar on February 8, 2007 at 1:18 pm

the usa is a christian nation? in what way? because our founding fathers were mostly christian? well, they were also white and male… since you are neither, maybe it’s you who should “shut up”.
oh, and for the record, our founding fathers weren’t exactly christian theists as you would have it:
http://www.sullivan-county.com/id3/debate.htm

ready5 on February 8, 2007 at 1:46 pm