Hey, Debbie…
Wanna hear how much f**ked up clout DRO has in ICE?
As you may be aware, ICE, and, by extension, it’s legacy in U.S. Customs, maintains Attache offices in countries around the world as part of its outreach in cooperating with the host countries regarding complex CRIMINAL INVESTIGATIONS.
Well, when GS-15 Attache announcements were posted earlier this year and slots were limited to OI agents only, DRO pitched a bitch to the ICE Princess and complained bitterly that “career advancement” opportunities were being denied them. So, what did little Ms. Diet Coke do? SHE CANCELLED THE ANNOUNCEMENT AND OPENED THE POSITIONS TO CONSIDERATION FROM BOTH OI AND DRO APPLICANTS !!! Yep, you guessed it, soon your friendly local ICE Attache in London, Paris, Bogota or Beijing could very well be an incompetent DRO lackey without so much as a day’s worth of investigative expertise (which is largely what the host country is looking for).
How does this figure into this post you ask? Here you have an ICE entity in DRO that can’t even figure out the whereabouts of 27 very dangerous criminal aliens, and we’re going to trust them to partner with both our internal (USG) and external counterparts to engage in the very sensitive business of complex criminal investigations, as well as brief our Ambassador as to what is happening within their area of responsibility on a regular basis? What a f**king joke ! And it’s any wonder why the bloodbath of retirements, interagency transfers and outright resignations continue to plague ICE OI.

4EVERCUSTOMS on July 13, 2007 at 8:11 pm

If what 4EVERCUSTOMS has written is true, which I have no reason to believe it is not, the fact of the matter is that whatever DRO lackey gets the overseas position they will be disregarded in the Embassy/Consulate enviroment. The other USG agencies overseas ie DOS,CIA,FBI etc., have little regard for ICE as it is, now fill these critical ICE positions with detention offficers that only have bus licenses, and no one will take ICE seriously.
JT is trying to desperately build up DRO, and he plans to have 1811’s in DRO in the future, and thus recreate INS. JT is/was an INS 1811, and trust me on this, he never wanted to be the DRO director. But being that he got stuck with the position (because they would never put a Cusotms 1811 in the position), he now must play the HQ chess game, in hopes of creating his own DRO/OI empire.
I can’t beleive that DRO got away with paying Tommy Lasorda as a guest speaker at their convention. I hear next year’s DRO convention they are having Paris Hilton as a guest speaker, so she can explain the inner workings of a dentention center. Taxpayers money being widdled away…

ICE4EVER on July 14, 2007 at 9:19 am

In response to ICE4EVER, I must disagree somewhat in his/her assessment about ICE’s current standing at the U.S. embassies overseas.
Although ICE is no longer even the 600 or 500 pound gorilla it once was as Customs (the DOS and the Feebs were ALWAYS the 800 pound gorillas overseas), ICE still commands a respectable 400 pounds and is often looked to as an important resource regarding issues of joint concern froim a criminal investigative standpoint by the host government; I know this to be true because I have done a number of TDYs overseas, and have received very positive feedback from the post staff and foreign law enforcement counterparts in those countries.
I do agree that you are absolutely correct in your assessment that if ICE starts placing DRO staff in these types of positions, they are going to start being regarded as useless deadweight the first time a request comes from the host country regarding a kiddie porn, money laundering or strat investigation and all the DRO Attache can say is “Well, what about deporting him?” That is NOT what the host government is looking for! – They are looking for the expertise that ICE can give and example that ICE can set in modeling criminal investigations and prosecutions, and that is where DRO will fail MISERABLY.

4EVERCUSTOMS on July 14, 2007 at 10:50 am

4EVERCUSTOMS & ICE4EVER,
Why are you two belittling perspective deportation officers who might qualify for ICE Attache positions? Do you even know the typical duties of a deportation officer? First, I not a DO, but I have had the pleasure of working with many of them on various cases and as SRT team members. I agree that there are some bad ones out there, but please look at OI first. We have “dead weights” too in our organization. I just want the most qualified person in the attache position. Competition is healthy. Let the best man or woman get the job.

MMA4LIFE on July 14, 2007 at 3:51 pm

Hey 4EVERCUSTOMS,
Glad that you personally reviewed the resumes of every DRO employee to make the blanket statement and referring to us as incompetent DRO lackies “without so much as a day’s worth of investigative expertise”. I assume you have no idea what DRO does or personally know any DRO Officers. I know there are many more competent to hold an Attache position than most OI SAs.
Why don’t you stick with bashing legacy INS Special Agents…you’re pretty good at that. Better yet SHUT THE HELL UP. Or even better, join the “bloodbath of retirements, interagency transfers and outright resignations.” You are way to bitter to be an effective Criminal Investigator. I am sure Debbie is impressed with your “insider information” though.
I WANT TO MAKE CLEAR THAT I DON’T AGREE WITH THE COMMENTS POSTED HERE WHICH BELITTLE DRO PEOPLE. I KNOW QUITE A FEW OF THEM, AND I’M GLAD THEY ARE IN THEIR JOBS, WHICH GET LITTLE GLORY AND ARE NOT EASY. THE DEPORTATION OFFICERS ON FUGITIVE TEAMS RISK THEIR LIVES EVERY DAY GOING TO ILLEGAL ALIENS’ HOMES AND ROUNDING THEM UP. NOTHING IN THIS POST WAS INTENDED IN ANY WAY TO BELITTLE THEM, ONLY TO BELITTLE THEIR ULTIMATE BOSS, JOHN TORRES, WHO ACTUALLY DOESN’T HAVE ANY DRO EXPERIENCE. HE WAS AN INS AGENT INVOLVED IN INVESTIGATIONS, AND NOT VERY GOOD AT IT.
DEBBIE SCHLUSSEL

icehaha on July 14, 2007 at 4:32 pm

My understanding is that DRO has quite a few former INS and Customs Investigators, if they are qualified, why shouldn’t they be allowed to compete for one of the positions overseas?
And, since when were the selections made for overseas positions based on experience and/or investigative skill? It is a club of who you know (that obvious fact was confirmed to me from the top once upon a time). Many of the ICE attaches and most definitely the FBI are delusional about their relation to the host countries. News Flash! They don’t like you! You pompous arrogant twit! They can’t stand you despite what you big head thinks.
When you’re done fooling yourself, your wife finds out about your mistress, and the agents in CONUS get a chance at pay back for doing nothing on their cases, you will be sniveling in some cubicle at HQ surrounded by your “love me wall” of meaningless plaques and souvenirs talking about how great you were.

code7 on July 14, 2007 at 5:15 pm

First of all, I don’t know if “code7” is directing the last paragraph of his/her last post my way. My sole advice in this area is to be cautious with specific personal attacks that lack supporting evidence; that’s one quick way to an EEO or a lawsuit.
That aside, I speak with good authority on this matter, having worked overseas with another agency in the past. Yes, there are many DRO staff that WERE criminal investigators at one time in the past. It is my understanding that many left OI after having been promoted to GS-13s to get GS-14s and GS-15s, along with AUO, FLSA and many of the other “bennies” that DRO is currently enjoying because of their current standing as the 800 pound gorilla in ICE, and the massive funding that is going along with that. When I have asked many of these DRO transferees why they left OI, the overwhelming response was stunningly simple: They wanted the most amount of money for doing what came naturally to them – ADMINISTRATIVE IMMIGRATION WORK. That’s right – 9 TO 5, Monday through Friday, NO callouts, NO complex cases and the associated headaches, just a simple existence with NO problems. Now they want the prestige of being posted overseas, engaging our foreign partners and representing our government regarding COMPLEX CRIMINAL INVESTIGATIONS. Well, I can personally tell you, based on my visits to those offices, that our offices in Mexico City, Buenos Aires, and London are NOT idle, with our staff sitting on their asses all day – they hump and hump pretty f**king hard to handle ALL of the requests that come into their office from BOTH the host government AND ALL of the offices in the U.S. It’s a THANKLESS job to be sure, and one that I’m not certain too many people would want if they saw what they REALLY do overseas.
Read the job description of an ICE Attache, friends: It requires handling COMPLEX criminal investigative requests from BOTH the host government AND our offices from around the country. If John Torres and DRO think it important to establish SEPARATE DRO Attaches around the world to handle administrative matters, fine. However, let them fund it from DRO’s budget and not drain OI both in terms of its mission focus and its money pot.

4EVERCUSTOMS on July 14, 2007 at 8:10 pm

4EVERCUSTOMS
First off, we are brothers in blue. Although I don’t agree with your opinions, I respect you desire to voice your concerns through this venue. At the end of the day, you’re still my brother officer.
I disagree with you concerning the way you use the term “complex investigations.” It is my belief that very few Legacy Customs agents, Legacy INS agents, or FBI agents have actually worked a “complex investigation” in their career. They might have worked with “complicated” statutes, but not the “animal” called a “complex case.” My opinion of the term is just that; an opinion. To the agents I work with, a “complex case” is one involving: 1. lots and lots of paper, 2. Ten or more defendants, 3. 18 months or more prior to the main indictment, 4. Three or more RICO predicate crimes.
Attaches and their assistants don’t work “complex investigations.” They don’t have the time or AUSA support for these animals. Attaches facilitate investigators who work complex investigations when they play in their backyards. You are right that many attaches and their assistants bust their butts working. I agree with you on this point, but I also agree with CODE7 that it is a “club.”
I have been fortunate enough in my investigative career to have worked extensively on TDYs in Asia. In my opinion, the best attaches have been gregarious individuals who can get along with all types of people. They typically act as “gate keepers” for both the host country and their agency. Again, I have no problems with a qualified deportation officer applying for these types of positions.

MMA4LIFE on July 14, 2007 at 9:47 pm

Dear “MMA”
I guess we’ll agree to disagree here; I thank you for your courtesy and respect – it’s more than I’ve gotten from others on this site in the past.
I guess what really kills me is that ICE OI is expected to be all things to all people – BOTH Immigration AND Customs, BOTH criminal AND administrative case workers, while DRO is seemingly “skating” with simply the ADMINISTRATIVE IMMIGRATION side of things.
Yes, I am aware of the scope of what a complex investigation curtails: I currently work in a financial investigative group where I am sifting through tons of paper and could indict on any number of RICO predicates or money laundering counts under numerous SUAs. Its comforting to know that, right now, I am dealing with Attaches and others posted overseas who have a variety of INVESTIGATIVE experience and kind of have a feel for what I need for my case stateside. I sadly suspect that, should DRO staff assume these types of posts overseas, if it doesn’t involve a deportation or immigration violation, it’s not going to mean much of anything to them, while the current Attaches and their staff are expected to do it all. Again, I have a sick feeling that CRIMINAL investigations that require foreign office support are going to languish and die because DRO staff do not have the investigative training or experience required to support the numerous types and complexities of cases we face. As referenced above, DRO can’t account for 27 dangerous criminal aliens – a seemingly simple task. How are they going to account when things really get complicated and politically sensitive in foreign ops? I guess we’ll just have to wait and see, won’t we?

4EVERCUSTOMS on July 14, 2007 at 10:04 pm

Wow,
Just when you thought you’d seen it all, it just gets better. Hey, maybe they’ll open the Attache jobs to ICE’s other red-headed stepchild – FPS! They could rattle doorknobs overseas just as well as they do here! How the hell did ICE end up with DRO and FPS? Maybe nobody else wanted them? Maybe an afterthought? Maybe they were sent to ICE to ‘raise the bar’? Makes about as much sense as ICE does anyway. Hey, where’s the Everliving Lapdog? ‘Bout time for him to chime in and comment on how it’s getting better every day in every way. Even he must admit this thing is an abomination.

q2thecore on July 15, 2007 at 1:53 am

Dam, sure hope you all figure something out.

John Cunningham on July 15, 2007 at 6:44 am

Debbie:
I concur with your assessment of DRO Fugitive Ops and the very fine and hard work that they do; it is important work to be sure, and I (and I’m sure, other OI agents) am (are) happy to help when and however they need OI to fill in gaps on major projects, in a pinch, etc.
However, I stand by my assessment that, regarding my initial post, that DRO threatens to get in WAY, WAY over their heads in an area with which they have no expertise or standing. It’s like me demanding to be the FBI LEGATT overseas with little of any experience in drafting extradition requests, MLATS and other important DOJ documentation required to effect our foreign-based missions. I don’t try to be something I am not, and don’t want anyone elese to try to be somerthing they are not, either.
Again, this is an example of John Torres and the other “feeling their oats” types at Headquartes trying to muscle in on an area that is NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS, unless they want to fund, OUT OF THEIR OWN BUDGET, a SEPARATE DRO Attache slot in various overseas posts. They should not sacrifice OI expertise, mission or budget on these existing Attache positions, and I think it stands to reason that, if John Torres and his subordinates can’t figure out where 27 DANGEROUS CRIMINAL ALIENS are, they have ABSOLUTELY NO business being entrusted with our nation’s business overseas. I solemnly asure you, we will be headed for a MAJOR embarrassment if that happens.

4EVERCUSTOMS on July 15, 2007 at 10:56 am

On the street level, most INS INV offices had a reputation for being pretty much worthless and uncooperative with local agencies. The old INS Deportation officers would get down and dirty and kick doors with you, and could hold their own as street investigators. The current Fugitive Ops are doing their own thing and kicking their own doors.
they only call when they get a real crook with no immigration charges.
ICE is still pretty much worthless and uncooperative except now they have that customs attitude along with everything else.
John T. may well have reached his level of incompetency, but INS was like a big Sheriff’s Department, all promotions were either outright political or otherwise based on who you knew.

LocalLawman on July 15, 2007 at 11:58 am

There are all sorts of high speed, low drag black ops guys from all over the world out there. If you think you can strut your stuff like a peacock around these guys and they are not going to hate your guts you’re mistaken. Humble doesn’t seem to be in the ICE OI vocabulary and they (the overseas law enforcement communtiy) hate you for it. You have to deliver unconditionally a hundred times to a place like Aruba and really respect them so that when something goes down like Natalie Holloway, they are they for you. Flying into their world like you actually know what your talking about because you read the Aruba Lonely Planet Guide is obnoxious.
I have lived over five years overseas in three countries, what I have seen is arrogance, lack of education, self-absorbed, selfish people who don’t know what time it is. So get off the “I’m a complex investigaor you will respect me” line. EEO? Lawsuits? That’s another world for the rear echelon, the world is on fire in some parts and we should be worried about some pampered clown getting his feelings hurt and filing an EEO? People are getting killed overseas including a whole lot of host country law enforcement and the ICE OI babies are crying about their milk.

code7 on July 15, 2007 at 12:54 pm

“code7” …
I was trying to follow your last post, but had a tough time doing so. I’d like to respond to each point that I think you were trying to make.
Regarding “EEOs” and “lawsuits”, all I was referring to was generalizations that people seem to have regarding those who get posted overseas: That those who were selected to those foreign posts did someone, bent over or otherwise pleasured someone to get where they are. Others have made such insinuations on this site in the past and I am quick to call them on it: If they have proof that someone is engaged in dishonorable activity as it relates to their obtaining a position, fine – SHOW IT!!! Otherwise, best to remain silent and say nothing. I’ve been called before IA on a couple of occassions to provide statements as to whether or not people made certain statements about others that were patently FALSE (e.g. having affairs, etc.), and I can tell you it gets pretty fugly pretty quickly.
Regarding humility within OI, I object to your broad catergorizations here, as well. It is my humble opinion that you may be confusing professional confidence and assertiveness with arrogance, and the two are, in fact, different. On the other hand, I agree that people should not try to make themselves out to be more than what they are and be content with their station in life; i.e. don’t make yourself to be an astronaut or a Navy SEAL if you are nothing more than a buck private doing KP; there is even honor in that, if you are honest about who you are and what your role and function is. Furthermore, I agree that people going overseas ought to take care to genuinely learn as much as possible before going foreign – either on TDY or PCS – about the land, people and culture in the theater thay are going to operate in. Yes, humility and quiet knowledge does go a long way, and you have no disagreement from me here, my friend.
However, I will NOT back down from my assertions that DRO, in attempting to assume Attache/Assistant Attache/ICE Rep positions in foreign countries may be WAY IN OVER THEIR HEADS regarding what they are trained to do versus what will be asked of them once “in country”. Many may think that a foreign post is all cocktail parties, 3 martini lunches with the Ambassador and working 10 to 2, 3 days a week. I can tell you, from my own observations of Attaches and their subordinates overseas, that that is FAR from the case, and that life becomes an endless juggle of in-country requests from the host government, collaterals from U.S.-based offices, hosting TDYs from the states, answering incessant e-mails, traveling to all of the countries within the Attache’s AOR (e.g. the Attache-Buenos Aires covers 4, yes, FOUR countries: Argentina, Chile, Paraguay AND Uruguay; I tell you, those poor bastards are out of the main office more than they are in), etc. I sure hope that DRO is going to see the assignment for what it really is – a lot of work for very little reward and glory, and that they are up to the task for ALL that they are going to be asked to do for both OI and DRO. And, let me say this – the first time a collateral of mine gets dropped or dismissed because an Attache selected from DRO ranks cannot provide the investigative support required for my case, be rest assured a hell of a lot of e-mails are going to go up my chain of command: I’ll be damned if I am going to take the fall for someone else who has risen to their level of incompetence. DRO ought be careful for what they have wished for; they just might get it, and all the misery that goes with it, as well.

4EVERCUSTOMS on July 15, 2007 at 10:54 pm

Just for the record, Fugituve Operations and Criminal Investigations are two different animals. Fug Ops is getting an alien file, finding the alien, and arresting them. Yes, the job has its risks, but anyone can can do it. There are more complexities to criminal investigations, from details report writing, to final submission of a criminal affidavit. Fug Ops might get a 1326 out of an apprehension, but 1326’s are cookie cutter template cases, that most AUSA districts push through like an assembly factory.

ICE4EVER on July 16, 2007 at 4:59 am

4EVERCUSTOMS-
You are correct, it is wrong to accuse someone with gossip. I never said that you had to blow someone to go overseas, although I think that I can indeed prove that has happened. Nor have I suggested that our hard working overseas agents are lazy, I have only contempt for the ones that are coniving lazy blowhards who kissed but to find a job out of sight somewhere. If you knew me, you would know that I don’t say anything I wouldn’t say to someone’s face. Yet, I don’t put anything down on paper and never pursue IA cases against people I suspect, they are going caught without my help (well, maybe a nudge). I want to be careful not to impose my morality on anyone, just because I don’t believe in cheating on your wife or girlfriend, doesn’t mean I’m going to report someone, quite the opposite, I focus more on my own behaviour. Foreign assignments are not given out based on skill or merit (Period) We all know that, how can you say differently?
Some DRO officers are very skilled people persons who will work very well with host countries and that is the bottom line, cooperation will get Omar Dickhead on the next plane home regardless of the jerkoff host countrie’s legal system. It is all who you can develop a friendship with and you do that by delivering attention to their needs first. The Supreme Court for United Southern Towelhead country can rule one way and the right secretary can make a clerical error and Mustafa Fukdacamel is airborne. So no, I don’t buy the DRO guys can’t handle it, just the opposite, I think they can kick some butt. Look how many senior FBI agent/Legats could not get guys convicted or extradited overseas and some non-investigative Dept of State guy gets it done.

code7 on July 16, 2007 at 6:30 pm