It must be the same silent majority that posts on 911jobforums.com so negatively that the moderators over there basically won’t allow even one word of negative speak about ICE because it has gotten so bad.
EVS, I truly try to remain optimistic about the future of ICE, but YOU my friend, have drank a full glass of the Kool-Aid if you think that the majority of agents within ICE are happy.
People have already voted with their feet. I have seen some of the best new, young agents leave this place like rats on the Titanic. What was John Clark’s initial response to all the negativity? He wrote a memo saying “Either get with the program or get a new job.” Can you imagine the CEO of Ford telling his employees that? The stock would be plummeting over night! It’s the CEO/Director’s job to keep morale up. Once you start blaming the troops for their negativity, you’ve lost them.
Now all of a sudden, 4 years later, upper management at ICE seems to want to fix things. Apparently the mass exodus of agents from ICE has struck a nerve. Well guess what? It all starts from the top. Maybe they should be looking at themselves and not at us.
At HQ they won’t give you a blackberry until you’ve “earned it”. That’s right, they have purchased enough Blackberries for every agent at HQ, but it’s like a status symbol, they won’t give you one until you’ve done something they like. This is the typical petty B.S. that happens within ICE.
Even the FBI realizes that a HQ tour sucks bad enough. Therefore they try and minimize the time spent at the building. Not at ICE, ICE’s answer to anything going wrong at HQ is to make people stay longer!
And to the part about aliens not using computers, I have to disagree. Counterfeit documents are produced on computers, and employers in worksite enforcement cases use computers. Computers are used by everyone, even aliens. To be right-sizing C3 right now is one of the most moronic, idiotic, and just plain stupid decisions from our leadership at HQ.

ICEAGENT on June 3, 2007 at 1:24 pm

Kcrat,
I guess if you are venting here, at a virtual foe, maybe you aren’t taking it out on your family or your dog. I sure hope that is the case.
Relax kcrat, it’s just a friendly discussion, by people that have different perspectives and beliefs. No need to get in the gutter with the name calling and insults.
You think you are speaking for the majority, because nobody ever challenges you, or out yells you on here. I think you are wrong. But you can yell all you want, because there are some here that enjoy your childish tantrums. Now on to the adult conversation…
ScottyDog,
The fact that any worksite enforcement cases are being done, is progress over the way the old INS did business. Not the agents fault mind you, but the system that they were stuck with.
Everyone knows, or should know, that the draw for the bulk of the illegal aliens is pure economics.
They can make more in an hour or two here, than they can make in a day or week there. Pure and simple. If we can upset that dynamic, in any way, it could help. Might not, but maybe, just maybe it will have an impact.
The goal of our worksite program is making criminal cases for federal violations of law, first and foremost against the employers that are violating federal law, utilizing all the tools and techniques that are at our disposal.
Criminal arrests, criminal search warrants and seizure warrants are what we are all striving for in these cases, and administrative arrests are secondary.
The administrative arrests take up a lot of our time, no doubt, but it’s a collateral consequence of our actions, not our intended objective.
Do you have a better solution? I’d like to hear it.
I’ve heard that there are some 12 to 15 million people, illegally here. Should we begin to chip away at that number, or wait for Congress to make it all better?
We’ve got a job to do, that half of America wishes we would do faster, and the other half doesn’t want us to do at all.
It is the Illegal Immigration “Catch 22”.
Enjoy the rest of your weekend, it’ll be over soon enough, and we’ll be back at it.
Work safe guys,
EVS

EverVigilantSheepdog on June 3, 2007 at 1:44 pm

Hey Ever Vigilant Lapdog,
I love this one – The goal of our worksite program is making criminal cases for federal violations of law, first and foremost against the employers…
How PC of you. What about the meat packing fiasco last winter? How many aliens were apprehended? How many actually were sent home? How many were given Notices to (Dis)Appear? Whom, if anyone, went to jail? The employers? I think if you crunched numbers, it would have been cheaper to pay each alien $5,000.00 and send them first class to their home country for Christmas. That boondogle cost the taxpayers, which includes you and I, millions of bucks for what? A little face time for the bosses with CNN? Ten years ago, that would have been a few Border Patrol PA’s walking in and saying, “Siga me” to the aliens with very little hullaballoo. Now, it’s at the AS level with SACS and DSACS and all the fluff.
The problem is right under your nose. When you say ‘our worksite enforcement’ is that HQ’s or the field’s? ‘Cause they sure don’t jive in the real world. You want truth, bring it on. I’m just getting warmed up. Let’s propose a new Immigration reform bill to Congress – pay each alien $5,000.00 to go home, after we shut the border down. Heck, we should even throw in a free I-pod and 1st class ticket. How friggen ironic would that be? Like I said, it would be cheaper in the long run. Peace, out. EVS, keep printing those leaflets…Enjoy the Kool-aid.

q2thecore on June 3, 2007 at 2:00 pm

q2thecore,
There you go again with the insults, and name calling, and lets not forget, the kool-aid references. Original thoughts are rare here I’ve noticed.
If you are so miserable q2, why don’t you just move on?
I just visited the 911jobsforum, and it appears that there are a lot of people out there that would like the position you are presently encumbering. Give it up, and move on.
My guess is your negativitiy and doom and gloom attitude prevent you from seeking employment elsewhere. I bet you are a lot of fun to work around. LOL
For the silent majority here, this is a career. If that’s not the case for you, and it’s just another job, weren’t you looking for one when you got this one?
Don’t let the door hit you in the ass buddy.
EVS

EverVigilantSheepdog on June 3, 2007 at 2:34 pm

EVS
Nice line but I do not buy it.
Chertoff and Meyers are guilty of Treason and Sedition for not enforcing the immigration laws. They both keep trying to say we cannot deport the ìmigrantsî. The last time I checked, they took an oath of office to enforce the constitution.
Why don’t you bust Cargil or Tyson Foods or come to Los Angeles and I can show you a landscaping company that employees over 1000 illegal aliens. Artistic Maintenance, one of the largest landscapers in the LA area that operates with impunity. None of the workers speak English except the padroneís they hire to supervise the crews. It is well known that the company provides phony documents to its workers just like Cargill meat packing does.
When are you going to start prosecuting the employers and send them to prison. The laws are on the books.
I have reported them numerous times to ICE and nobody even called me back after phone calls and emails.
I used to work in law enforcement just not for the FEDS. I called the old INS with 20 Illegal Aliens in the booking process that all had phony IDís and CA welfare documents with picture IDís. After the agent in charge got on site, I got my ass chewed for having the gall to call and report felons.
I was told that we are not interested in such small cases just like you lectured here on this site and they would not detain any inmates unless they were convicted of a felony separate from the charges I had filed.
The last time I checked, getting welfare is a felony and so is Identity theft. So, when INS let me down. I faxed the State of California welfare fraud hotline who had the balls to charge them. Imagine a sworn LE having to use a consumer hot line to get the law enforced. Nobody will deport them once they serve their sentences certainly not ICE. Mr Burns is too busy lying to the American Public on CNN and FoxNews.
I have heard it numerous times from liars like Chertoff and Julie Meyers to you, right here on this site. The big excuse is we cannot waste resources…blah blah blah.
No wonder illegal immigration is out of control.
Eisenhower knew how to enforce Immigration law when he created “Operation Wetback” and was responsible for over 1 million deportations with far less resources than we have today.
He fired the head of the BP and put somebody in charge that had the balls to ignore the politically correct BS that passes for wisdom in DC.
His program put the fear of God into the minds of Illegal Aliens, and for the most part self deported. Remember when they used to yell migre at the site of a LE officer? Not anymore, they have no fear of anyone in LE and why should they.
Please do not patronize us here at Debbie chlussel.com. as we know better.

ScottyDog on June 3, 2007 at 3:07 pm

E.V.S. (Ever Vigilant Sheepdog) and ISellers, WHAT A BUNCH OF HAPPY TALKING BULLSHIT! If you Keystone CLOWNS are doing such a great job of “sanctioning employers”, then how come the number of ILLEGAL ALIEN MEXICANS is doubling in my South Mississippi town every 2 months??!! First, it was an entire apartment complex. Then, it was the entire street. Now, there’s another street, and another street, and another street, ENTIRELY OF SPANISH-SPEAKING MEXICANS. YOU LYING BASTARDS, YOU ARE DESTROYING THE ENTIRE DAMN COUNTRY.

steve ventry on June 3, 2007 at 3:16 pm

Would anyone dispute that having SOME worksite enforcement cases is better than having NO worksite cases? Of course a hell of a lot more needs to be done. Hey steve ventry, get your head out of your ass!! If you think a few thousand ICE agents can solve the illegal alien problem in this country, then you are also probably the same person who thinks DEA should have completely eradicated all illegal drugs decades ago.

lsellers on June 3, 2007 at 5:13 pm

I’m late to all this fun. EVS, you are a Kool-Aid drinker with that comment about how SAC New York is about to get such a wonderful new leader. I’ll grant you, he’s one of the nicest guys you’ll ever want to meet, and an excellent investigator. He’s got a PhD in slick talking and dodging problems, but it’s going to catch up to him. His management style? If you’re not my best buddy and not willing to say yes to everything I say, you are dead to me. If there are problems, I don’t want to know about them. Get rid of them.
If you aren’t an FOP, you’re fucked. The problem is, the SAC NY is big. Very few FOPs there. And those guys don’t cotton to that shit. I hear they are already sharpening their knives.
All they want, and all that any of us want, are LEADERS. Leaders who treat their agents like professionals and human beings, and who will do the right things for the people of this country. What we have now is an agency being run by just another mafia. I do believe John Clark and Ms. Forman think they are doing bang-up jobs, but that’s because they don’t know any better. It all starts at the top with Chertoff. He has no idea what he’s doing. Myers sure as hell doesn’t have a clue what she’s doing. And it just goes downhill from there. This agency is floundering and no one is there to right it.
I personally don’t like all of the vitriolic comments by the Marcy/Julie bashers. It doesn’t serve the cause well of trying to get support of the people of this nation to demand that Congress demand leadership for ICE.
Can you imagine if someone proposed that Julie Myers run the FBI or the CIA? Why that person would be accused of smoking a doobie laced with embalming fluid. But yet it’s okay for her to run ICE? That should tell you all you need to know. In the average person’s eyes, ICE is just some people who do something out there–not really sure what it is, and they don’t really care. But the FBI? Why, those are the guys who can walk on water and who save us from terrorists; even if it was local law enforcement who really did it. If you don’t believe it, just ask them. (Jeezus H. Christ, if people only knew . . . )
Again, EVS, your positive outlook is because you are obviously in the mafia about which I write. And that’s all right. Good for you. But you need to open your eyes and see that many of the decisions that are being made in ICE are poorly thought out and based in loyalty to the family and the company line. ICE needs proven leadership, something of which it’s now devoid.

AynaydaPizaqvick on June 3, 2007 at 5:42 pm

Scotty,
I’m going to say something that you should already know. Chertoff and Meyers didn’t create this mess with illegal immigration, and the problem won’t be solved on their watch either.
Treason and sedition are big words, and neither apply here. Sounds good though when you shout them out loud, huh?
There will never be enough ICE agents or ICE DRO personnel to pick all the illegal aliens up.
It’s going to take a combination of effective law enforcement, sensible legislation and a change in the economy down south.
I only have a say in one aspect of that, and I’ll do by best at that.
There is a program called 287(g) which allows state and local law enforement officers to utilize immigration authorities under the task force or jail models. In time this will help, but it’s not the answer to all of our problems.
The use of 287(g) works as a force-multiplier for ICE, but the process takes time, lengthy training, and money for the IT requirements, and there is a requirement for oversight from ICE.
I haven’t read the latest bill that’s being debated by both sides of the aisle right now, and frankly, I’m too low on the totem pole to get a vote. I’m sworn to uphold the law, and that’s what I’ll do.
Mr. Ventry you are out of line sir. I’m a lying bastard that is destroying the entire damn country? I’m not a Border Patrol Agent watching them run into the country, while I sit on my X.
I’m also not a congressman refusing to look for a solution. I’m just an ICE Agent doing what I can.
I don’t see you strapping on body armor and hitting the streets, chasing illegal gang bangers. It’s easy to second guess and throw rocks, but why don’t you get in the game, and then tell us how easy it is.
EVS

EverVigilantSheepdog on June 3, 2007 at 5:43 pm

AynaydaPizaqvick,
Again with the Kool-Aid. Is it required to use that worn out, and not so clever line to respond to a post on this blog??? I think I detect more intelligence in the rest of your post, so I’ll respond.
I’m going to disagree with you sir, as it relates to the new SAC/NY. I think if people will give him a chance, he can bring people together, and provide the leadership that everyone with any sense longs for.
I’m not going to comment on our presidential appointed leadership, because it is what it is. I’ve never concerned myself too much about who the Commissioner, or Assistant Secretary is, as it doesn’t affect my day to day world.
As long as I have the trust and confidence of my immediate supervisor, and I respect that person as a leader, I’m good to go. Maybe I’m just blessed, but where I work we don’t worry about people sharpening knives, or kissing the rings of Mafia Dons.
I share your view re: Leaders. Prior to the merger I said it, and I’ve said it post-merger as well, we desperately need more leaders and fewer managers.
Leaders that do the right thing, for the right reason, regardless of where their next promotion/position comes from. I believe if you treat the people right, the people will do the job. Fortunately for me, my SAC shares this view.
Don’t need to bully or bluff…just be professional.
We also need to grow more leaders in this agency. If you aren’t already a leader in ICE, I hope you’ll step up when the time is right.
Be safe my brother,
EVS

EverVigilantSheepdog on June 3, 2007 at 6:16 pm

ScottyDog, you are right on the money about treason and sedition regarding these government officials who REFUSE to do their duty. What they don’t understand is that MIDDLE AMERICA is actually losing faith in the legitimacy of the US government and the laws. We see now it’s just a facade. These cronies are dismantling the very belief in the idea of America.

steve ventry on June 3, 2007 at 9:20 pm

For those in the “silent majority”:
If things are so great in ICE, I’d appreciate your response with verifiable facts to the following:
– The large majority of reports issued by public and private entities (namely, the FORMER DHS – IG (the COURAGEOUS Clark Kent Ervin, who was forced out of office by President Bush for speaking his mind regarding the debacle of DHS), The Center for Immigration Studies and The Heritage Foundation (both private entities, by the way, are fairly CONSERVATIVE)) have been resoundingly NEGATIVE regarding ICE, its formation, its leadership and its current operating mehodology. If you have any other report that refute these studies, I’d like for you to refer to them so I can read them for myself.
– The OVERWHELMING number of reports in the mainstream media and weblog sites about ICE are decidedly NEGATIVE with regards to the issues cited above. If you can point out any contrasting points of view, again, I’d like to be referred to them for my own review and analysis.
– INDEPENDENT, ANONYMOUS and SCIETIFICALLY VALIDATED surveys of DHS and, specifically, ICE employees, demonstrate TIME AND TIME again that DHS and ICE remain amongst the “bottom of the barrel” Federal agencies to work for in terms of employee satisfaction.
– Julie Myers remains one of the FEW major pesidentially-nominated persons in a position of great import that has yet to be confirmed or even RECOMMENDED for confirmation by the Senate. I’d would like some feedback as to why you think this is the case.
No name calling here, no personal attacks – JUST THE FACTS PLEASE !!! If things are SO great, perhaps you can, point by point, explain away the four, VERY SALIENT points put forth above.
I think that many of us want the same thing – a better, stonger and PROUDER agency but there is a great disconnect at this time between what is and what could be. This COULD change, IF there were some very FUNDAMENTAL changes in ICE LEADERSHIP and the WAY THEY DO BUSINESS. We need MANAGERS of HUMAN RESOURCES who VALUE the FIELD AGENTS and who have PERSONAL and PROFESSIONAL INTEGRITY, not a bunch of disingenuous SUITS who issue memos day in and day out as if they are the be all to end all.

4EVERCUSTOMS on June 3, 2007 at 11:05 pm

Hey 4ever,
Once again, when pushed on the issues – meat packing case, surveys, IG reports, etc., their silence is resounding. I’ll bet the reply will be, “like it or there’s the door.” It’s as rhetorical on their side as the Kool-aid comments are from our side. It’s part of that Beltway Bipolarism – Did you see how Lapdog went from, “Let’s all work together to make this a better place” to “Don’t let the door hit you in the arse on the way out”? It’s because that’s all (s)he has to reply with. “This is the way it’s going to be so deal with it or fuggoff!” I also like the way Lapdog seems to enjoy talking down to us minions. “I’ll now address you….” (s)He’s obviously a person of some consequence who is used to addressing the troops and pontificating. “Be professional”, etc. Sounds like John P. himself holding court right here before our very eyes.

q2thecore on June 4, 2007 at 12:22 am

Folks,
Calling names and making comments about coffee stirring with a tie takes away from any credible comments you may be making. It demeans those who make comments like that to nothing more than children on a school yard. I really wish Schlussel would stop making them as well. Doing so might make her more credible.
Arguing about a dress code takes away from discussing real issues. There is nothing wrong with looking professional around the office.
I think the ìsilent majorityî are those who are very unhappy with where this agency is going, but we have nowhere to discuss our anger and sadness. The former USCS agents see everything we did quickly going away and immigration being what the agency is all about. We did not join USCS to work immigration cases. Yes, 9/11 changed everything, but it should have changed the FBI and the CIA; not Us Customs. Again, we had nothing to do with the failure of the two ìintelligenceî agencies.
We have ìsilentlyî watched as ìourî assets were taken from us and stood by as we were told by other LE agencies that we are nothing more than ìimmigrationî. We have ìsilentlyî stood by as our reputation as an agency that other agents wanted to go to is diminished and becomes nothing more than the ìimmigrationî service. They would rather stay with the DEA or Secret Service than come to the new INS. We have ìsilentlyî stood by while a majority of the ìICEî clips and ìDHS Todayî spam emails detail immigration ìsuccessesî and very little acknowledgement of ìCustomsî investigations. We have ìsilentlyî stood by as we lost the camaraderie of the ìuniform divisionî. We ìsilentlyî stood by as we were graced with Michael Garciaís presence. You recall that he came from the INS and gave away operations such as Green Quest to the FBI.
As for Ms. Formanís concern regarding ìrumorsî. We all know that if she is really concerned, she could simply do an email through ìICE Clipsî addressing each and every concern by simply stating something to the effect of ìAgents of ICE, you are not losing Customs authority. You are not going to be absorbed by the FBI, DEA or Secret Service. We are not solely focusing on immigration. Yes, there are agencies trying to take our authority away, but due to the work of Chertoff, Meyers and me that isnít happeningí. If there was true concern and honesty behind the message, she could say some a lot more than she or Meryers or even Chertoff has.
Telling former Customs agents to leave if they donít like the way the agency is heading is ridiculous. Again, we didnít voluntarily join the INS. Those of us that started in the INS left and left for several reasons. I would offer that one major reason for leaving the INS is that neither the administration nor Congress cares about immigration enforcement. Why beat your head against a wall just to have the government and the courts undo your work?
There was a positive way to ìcreateî this agency and this wasnít it. There is a way to make this agency the true ìinvestigativeî division of DHS and the way we are going isnít it either. We could truly become the ìOffice of Investigationsî for DHS, do away with ICE, put us back with the uniform division and have a bureau that works immigration and the other working Customs investigations.
I am not defending or supporting Ms. Forman. I believe that she has to answer to a boss or bosses who are temporarily appointed and trying to make a name for themselves after their tenure. The true failures are Tom Ridge, Michael Garcia, Chertoff and Meyers.

mgofca on June 4, 2007 at 12:47 am

EVS
Does your tummy hurt from all the kool-aid that you drink?
What is your favorite flavor of kool-aid?

EVS Loves Kool-Aid on June 4, 2007 at 12:56 am

Hey, “Q” …
It doesn’t even end there, my friend; amongst some of the other questions I would like answered:
1. Why does Ms. Forman, who used such a derogatory racial statement regarding an African-American (documented and ratified in court document and by a panel’s riling), still remain in her position? If you or I EVER made such a statement (which is abhorrent to its core), you KNOW where we’d be – in the basement of the CAB building, or doing duty in Skid Roow or El Paso.
2. Why is Ms. Forman’s sibling, Mona, who was the ASAC over a U/C op in N.Y. under current investigation for the inability to account for tens of thousands of dollars in U/C funds, still in her position of authority in the same SAC (NY) office? IBbt if it was you or I, we’d be demoted and transferred at a minimum, and probably indicted and sent to prison.
3. Why did Ms. Forman go to a major southern tier SAC office and tell GS-13s (field agents) that it was her intent to “turn over” their ENTIRE front office within the following 6 months? That’s like an admiral telling a bunch of rank seamen that he or she is going to sack the entire command leadership of their Navy base – a egregious lack of protocol and couth, I think.
Again, I’m not resorting to name calling or personal attacks; I would just like real, verifiable answers to these and MANY other questions that have led to a crisis of confidence in this agency, and the consequential lack of respect by our brethern in the Federal, state and local law enforcement community, generally.

4EVERCUSTOMS on June 4, 2007 at 12:56 am

Guys,
I’ll try to respond to all of your questions, especially the ones I have some first hand knowledge of, and those that I feel qualified to answer.
I’m not Deputy Assistant Secretary John Clark or Director Marcy Forman (for those of you who continue to think so) and therefor I may not be able to adequately respond to some of your “bigger picture” questions, though I’m not sure anyone could convince some of you that water is wet, or that the sun is hot.
I know that my identity is driving some of you to distraction, and I think that is comical. I’ll restate some clues to help you try to solve this puzzle: 1. I don’t work in HQS though I know where it is, and 2. I’m not an SES.
I guess I would be considered part of the senior leadership team (or how would I know some of the stuff I’m talking about), but I’ve worked my way up the old fashioned way, and have no regrets as to how I got where I am. I do know Mr. Clark and Mrs. Forman, and I knew them before they were in the positions they currently hold, and I’ve had a number of contacts with both Michael Garcia and Julie Myers. Trained investigators that you all are, I’m sure you can piece it together now. LOL
Where to begin? 4EVERCUSTOMS has a lot of questions, some of which I’ll concede are valid, and which I’ll attempt to address, and others which I can’t or won’t answer, as my answer(s) would give you too much information as to my identity. I’ve given you all you are going to get on that score. 🙂
If I were your SAC, and standing in front of your all-hands meeting, I’d gladly answer all of these question to the best of my ability. But I’m not, so I won’t. Of course that would assume you would have the courage to ask these questions in a public setting.
First of all, I won’t dispute or challenge the reports you cite, on the morale at DHS or ICE. Though I personaly don’t have a lot of faith in anonymous surveys and/or polls, I think DHS and ICE have a lot of work to do, to address the weaknesses identified in these surveys.
I never said it was all a bed of roses. I did say, and I stand by my statement, that not everyone in ICE is miserable, and looking for employment elsewhere. Blanket statements like those irritate me, because I know hundreds of agents that are continuing to pull the wagon for ICE, day in and day out, with no plans to go anywhere else.
These Special Agents believe as I do, that one day, these minor irritants will be resolved, and this agency will be strong and vibrant, as Customs Office of Investigations was once.
I said in an earlier post that I wouldn’t comment on the presidential appointees, and I’ll stand firm on that. It is what it is. I’m not saying I like it, I’m not saying I don’t.
I do have confidence in the career leadership however (DAS Clark & Director Forman). I know what they have been through in the last four years, doing everything possible to hold this agency together, and to grow it into something we can all be proud of. It’s been a tough four years for all of us, no doubt, but unless you’ve walked in their shoes, and seen what they’ve been through, you should be holding your fire.
They aren’t perfect, and they would be the first people to tell you that, but they are doing the best they can, under less than ideal conditions. I’ll even say I haven’t agreed with every decision that has been made up there, but damnit, at least some decisions are being made. If you are real investigators, you would at least attempt to gather ALL the facts before you draw conclusions.
I personaly don’t believe Director Forman used the derogatory language you refer to, and that the civil suit alleges she did.
I know what you are going to say “The judge affirmed this decision”. Doesn’t make it so. For whatever reason, the judge ruled the way he did, but there was no clear and convincing evidence on this point, just one person having everything to gain by making such an outrageous comment, and a senior executive denying ever saying it.
The EEO process is broken my friend, and if you need proof of this, we need to talk. I don’t want to get off on a tangent, or I’ll never get to sleep tonight. I’m just not buying it.
As I said before, I know Marcy, and while she may have said a lot of things, this statement is out of character, and thus unbelievable to me.
As for Marcy’s sister, I don’t have any personal knowledge of this, and won’t comment other than to say that knowing Marcy, I’ll bet she’s recused herself from any decisions one way or the other, if there is allegations of wrongdoing, or if disciplinary action is being considered.
Marcy is plenty smart, and knows that she must keep her hands off anything to do with her twin sister. Again, I don’t know anything about it, so I’ll not pretend to have the answers on this one.
As to your comments on “a major southern tier SAC Office” you don’t give me enough information to get my arms around the question. I wasn’t there when the comments were made, and it’s the first I’ve heard of it. If you can be more specific, I’ll try to answer, if I have any knowledge on point.
I believe mgofca made some valid points in his thoughtful response, many of which I agree with entirely.
Washington should have done something to fix the vunerabilities within the FBI and CIA and left Customs alone.
ICE should be merged with our uniformed partners, for a seamless, one team-one fight approach. I’m afraid these are things that are out of our control though my friend.
Doesn’t mean you should stop making your point though, I just think it might be better made in letters to your Senator, Congressman, and or the Whitehouse. The law enforcement leadership at ICE has enough on their plate, and no voice in these decisions.
I’ll close here, so I can get some sleep, as tomorrow is another work day. I’ve enjoyed the conversation, especially the voices of reason, that eventually find their way to the top. We may not agree on everything, and we may even have to agree to disagree, but having these discussions are healthy. I hope I haven’t offended anyone that didn’t deserve it.
Goodnight, and please work safe,
EVS

EverVigilantSheepdog on June 4, 2007 at 2:36 am

EVS,
I agree with some of what you say regarding the work that the agents are doing in the field and I realize that the program managers at HQ are just doing what they are told. But keep in mind… we are not children and you can’t hide the bitter taste of the medicine with a little sugar.
I disagree with your assesment of Forman and her motives, she is all about protecting her friends and family, she is also very vindictive. I’ve heard that she was a pretty good SSA and even a GS, but power can corrupt and she has been corrupted.
I’m not here to bash Forman, she is doing the best she can with what she has, but she is not a leader period. I think she wants to do the right thing but she is overwhelmed and way down in the weeds, as in Myers.
The latest addition to the ICE HQ family, DD Ray Parmer (aka:Bubba) another one who tries to conceal his discontent with the the fact that we have to enforce immigration law and his disdain for having to promote legacy INS agents to “have parity”. He has no clue about immigration law and it’s value to all the work we do, regardless of the investigative discipline.
The morale of this agency will not get better until these people move on and we get some leaders that people can trust and are willing to follow.
I did hear that during a teleconference Forman was telling everyone to get the evaluations in, talking about the SES bonuses, the sooner the better before the money is gone, “money is not the most important thing but it helps”.

ficedup on June 4, 2007 at 6:43 am

Damn EVS,,,, You must be a HQ employee because that post you just put up didnt say a damn thing. You just broke it down into several paragraphs withouth saying a word. You must be a star in the eyes of the HQ elite.

kcrat on June 4, 2007 at 9:19 am

This question is for EVS or any other senior ICE type out there … how do I, as a former ICE SSA, get back? I left ICE a year ago this August (for an OIG). Well, turns out I hate the new job and want to get back to traditional law enforcement work. OIGs are truly second-tier agencies (just my opinion; I’m sure not all of them suck). I sent my app to the DC SAC Office (I live in northern Va.) four months ago but got word that there are so many new guys in the pipeline that my chances were slim. I just threw in for that lateral 1811 deal and am hoping they do not blackball former ICE agents like Customs used to (am former USCS). I’ve got a few other leads, but figured ICE was a logical choice since I came from there. Any help/guidance would be appreciated. Gracias. (can give anyone my .gov email address if they want to chat offline).

FormerICE on June 4, 2007 at 9:47 am

How long has ISELLERS been around??! Obviously not long or he would know that there was an agency called U.S. Customs that was great – unfortunately he “cannot apply tomorrow” because they disbanded a fully functional, productive agency to create a farce.

marksman73 on June 4, 2007 at 10:50 am

AGAIN LET ME SAY:
What is happening here is HQ ICE’s campaign of “spin doctors” on this site who are desperately trying to calm the fury and anger that this this site (by telling it like it is) has perpetuated.
NO ONE ON THE FACE OF THIS PLANET IS GOING TO SELL THE IDEA THAT ICE IS A GREAT PLACE TO WORK OR THAT IT IS GETTING BETTER, NO WAY. THIS BLOG HAS GENERATED NUMEROUS LEGITIMATE CONCERNS AND UNTIL HQ CAN ACCEPT THEM AND ADDRESS THEM NOTHING WILL CHANGE. THE BIGGEST PROBLEM HQ FACES IS THE TRUTH, WHICH THEY CHOSE TO IGNORE, AND INSTEAD THEY TRY TO IMPRESS US WITH THEIR GRACIOUS THOUGHTS AND DODGING THE FACTS. THE AGENCY IS SCREWED STARTING AT THE TOP. GO BACK AND IMPLEMENT THE SUPERVISOR TEST TO ALL CURRENT SUPERVISORS/MANAGERS AND HALF OF THEM WILL FAIL. THAT WOULD AT LEAST SEND ONE OF MY SUPERVISORS BACK TO THE PHILIPPINES. EVERYTHING ELSE IS JUST BULLSHIT.

ICE4EVER on June 4, 2007 at 11:03 am

EVA you stated the following as you only response to several points I made illustrating the total lack of vision by the leadership at your agency.
ìI’m going to say something that you should already know. Chertoff and Meyers didn’t create this mess with illegal immigration, and the problem won’t be solved on their watch either.
Treason and sedition are big words, and neither apply here. Sounds good though when you shout them out loud, huh?î
EVA-Did you ever read your oath of office when you were sworn in? They are big words sir:
“Article IV, Section 4 of the U.S. Constitution states that “The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against invasion…
Just how many foreign invaders would constitute a threat that would meet your test of Treason and Sedition. How many million foreign invaders crossing the borders constitutes an invasion. By not putting the national guard on the border or the military to stop the millions streaming across our southern borders I would say, at the very least, this demonstrates leaderships total failure and it does constitute Treason.
GWB signed the John Warner National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) of 2007 granting the rescission of Posse Comitatus so do not throw that red herring up as a defense.
Chertoff is the head of DHS and his minion at ICE Julie Meyers are responsible to the American people first and the constitution they took an oath to uphold.
When 80% of public in poll after poll for the last 20 years are demanding our laws be enforced and nothing is done that is called Tyranny.
If Chertoff and Meyers are unable to control our borders and illegal immigration, they should resign. Spending money on Tom Lasorda to speak to ICE employees while we are being invaded demonstrates how far out of touch you people are with your mission.
What next, seminars in Mexico with Vincente Fox as featured speaker learning how to keep the borders wide open?

ScottyDog on June 4, 2007 at 11:44 am

EVS is a perfect example of the disconnect at ICE between the “leadership” and the troops. The “leadership” thinks that it’s a few disgruntled employees, while the majority of the people are happy but just remaining silent.
What the “leadership” doesn’t know, is that the troops are in fact mad as hell, but scared of voicing their opinions for fear of being sent to a group they don’t want to be in, or worse sent TDY to some hell hole.
Management at ICE apparently doesn’t have a clue, has been made glaringly obvious by EVS’s posts on here. Like 4EVER stated, the morale issues have been well documented. But wait EVS, you don’t trust anonymous surveys??? How the hell else do you expect people to relay their real opinions? If we had to put our names on them, my SAC would ship me to an ACAP group the next day!
Seriously, you are sounding more and more clueless as to what is going on in the trenches.

ICEAGENT on June 4, 2007 at 11:46 am

EVS, aka SES wannabe, aka SON-of-SAC is a moron. Nuff said about that empty suit. The OPM survey speaks for itself. Any independent survey of ICE/OI employees will show that more than 80% of the agents are very dissatisfied with the agency. One opinion the vast majority of both legacy CUSTOMS & INS agents share, is that ICE sucks & it ain’t working. By the way, this opinion is shared by both HQ and field agents. Hook Marcy up to the box and you will find that even she shares that opinion. It is what it is. The numbers speak for themselves. The morale is the worst in ANY government agency. CRACKsellers is either an ombudsman in sheep’s clothing or he works in the SAC/Denver office where life is relatively good. Nice try dawgs, but nobody with a brain is buying what you’re selling.

Rastis P. Rulz on June 4, 2007 at 3:19 pm

Ficedup,
We are going to have to agree to disagree on your assessment of Director Marcy Forman. I do not for one-minute accept your premise that she is corrupted.
It is a huge job, and a huge responsibility that she has, and I think everyone is quick to accuse and indict, and people rarely recognize the positive contributions she makes.
I am not going to repeat myself hopefully, but read my first post on this thread. It is the truth.
Your assessment of Deputy Director Ray Parmer is also way off the mark. Not only did you not hit the target, you didn’t even hit the ground behind the target!! If you have any contacts that you trust, that are in HQS give them a call.
Ray is doing great, no,outstanding work since he came back from overseas, and everyone I talk to tells me the same thing. Ray is smart, has people skills that you and I only read about, and knows how to bring people together, and get the job done.
You may not buy that from yours truly, but ask somebody you know, that is in the loop, and they will tell you the same thing. A lower level staffer probably wouldn’t have seen it too much, but if you know a Division director, ask them.
He probably knows less about immigration law then I do, but what does that matter? He is not out processing aliens, or working cases. He relies on some very talented leaders in HQS and the field to know these things.
Do you think Ronald Reagan was knowledgeable on ballistic missiles, or strategic bombers? I don’t think so, but he still brought an end to the cold war, by hiring the right people, and then trusting them to do their job. I’m not saying Ray is Ronald Reagan, but I think you get my point.
The morale of this agency will get better when people stop insulting each other, and start working together to make this agency what it can be. I trust these people (John Clark, Marcy Forman, Ray Parmer), and I am willing to follow them.
Your comments about the teleconference are close to accurate, but the context is a bit off center. Marcy was joking with the guys and gals in a light moment, encouraging everyone to meet a due date. Don’t see any harm there.
Kcrat,
As usual, you didn’t say much, so you’ll get a similar response from me. Come back when you have something of value to add to this grown-up persons conversation.
FormerICE,
Get on the phone with the DC recruiter. There are a lot of changes to our recruitment program, and they can fill you in on those changes. I’d think the lateral 1811 would be your best bet, and I understand the BQL on that may be out as soon as next week. Welcome back brother, we can use some experienced agents who are willing to
work.
Marksman73,
ISELLERS is my homie, and you better not mess with him, or you are going to have to take on the Ever Vigilant Sheepdog (EVS). This Alpha Dog has got Isellers back. LOL
ICEFOREVER,
No sir, I’m not a HQS spin-doctor, though I kinda like the way that sounds, but merely a loyal ICE employee that is damn fed up with people like you taking shots at good honest people that are trying hard to make a difference.
I have answered a lot of your questions, and rather than listen to logic, and truth, from someone who knows the truth, and isn’t afraid to tell it, I get more insults and silly kool-aid references.
Nobody ever said that ICE was perfect, and that everything is wonderful. We have our issues, and we’re moving to change those things that must be changed. I’d frankly rather be counted with the folks that are building this agency into something we can all be proud of, then sitting on the sidelines throwing rocks.
When, not if, ICE becomes the premier federal law enforcement agency that it will become, how are you going to tell the story to your children? “Yeah, I sat in my cubicle and threw rocks and bottles online until it got better”.
Get in the game, or find another game, but don’t waste my time with your sniveling.
ScottyDog,
I frankly don’t have the time to discuss global politics with you. Find someone else to take up that challenge. With all due respect, I got a job to do.
ICEAgent,
I know very well what the troops in my AOR are thinking, because we talk, and work together on a daily basis. I know what bothers them, as they aren’t bashful or shy. They tell me, sometimes more than I’d like.
Some of the troops are still upset with the merger, but within my sphere of influence I work very hard to treat people with respect, regardless of where they came from, and my SAC does the same.
ICE may be hell, as you all say in some places, but it damn sure isn’t my world.
I am curious about the fear that everyone seems to have of ICE “management”. The people I work for don’t scare me, and I frankly don’t think I scare anyone that works for me. If someone could elaborate on that I might learn a thing or two.
You stated, and 4EVER stated, “The morale issues have been well documented”. Where, on this blog? Do you think ICE HQs has the time to read this every day? I don’t think so. I’d be willing to bet you a paycheck that Marcy Forman has never logged onto this site. Why? Because she has better things to do, and she’s doing all that work, all while you guys throw rocks and bottles.
If you have morale issues, communicate them to your GS or ASAC, and ask that they be sent up the chain of command. Nobody is going to ship you off to an ACAP group. That’s the silliest thing I’ve heard today.
If they don’t know what’s bothering you, they can not fix it, or explain it to you. Do you have all-hands meetings, or the opportunity to speak one-on-one with your immediate supervisor? Tell them for goodness sake!
I initially logged onto this site to take Debbie to task for her continuous bashing of Marcy and Company, but I must say, I’m enjoying the opportunity to bring a little clarity to those of you who will accept it. You may not agree with me and that’s fine. I know I’m right, and I’m confident that as you become better educated, you’ll come around to my way of thinking.
Work safe,
EVS

EverVigilantSheepdog on June 4, 2007 at 3:49 pm

Rastis P. Rulz,
“Any independent survey of ICE/OI employees will show that more than 80% of the agents are very dissatisfied with the agency.”
Did this come from the OPM survey, or is this the RASTIS MAN’s Survey? Here’s a song for you Rastis, to sing while you work…
“I could have gone to work today for ICE, but then I got high, I could have made a difference today, but then I got high, I could have written a sensible post but then I got high, but then I got high, but then I got high”…..LOL
“EVS, aka SES wannabe, SON-of-SAC is a moron”
More Debbie Schlussel humor. Not too funny, but plays well to the disgruntles in the crowd.
Bet you wouldn’t say that to this Alpha Dogs face.
Next?
EVS

EverVigilantSheepdog on June 4, 2007 at 4:02 pm

EVS, next WHAT? You haven’t said anything that’s relevant.

steve ventry on June 4, 2007 at 4:05 pm

EVS,
I admire your loyalty. It’s a very rare commodity today and unfortunately it’s very rare within ICE management. Marcy and John are very hard working, and are no doubt trying to improve this agency. They are however TERRIBLE communicators. If Marcy hasn’t logged on to this site, it’s probably because she has tasked one of her “scared-shitless” minions to keep her advised of the daily floggings.
ICE Clips further diminish morale and demonstrate that we are not doing what the public wants us to be doing and when we do make an enormous and expensive effort like the Swift Raids, we fall short yet again.
That to me, and I grant it’s one man’s opinion, is the greatest failing of this organization. Management from the top down is afraid to do the hard thing and accept that there will be consequences and consequences be damned. That day is long gone. The lawyers are afraid of our potential liabilities and have no understanding of what we as agents do. The Customs management of old understood that in order to make an omelet you have to break some eggs. They told congress no all the time and were not totally caught up in trying to anticipate the next inquiry. They were lions. They knew that the mission was far more important than the politics. They took care of problems immediately. They didn’t let them fester. That is why EEO is out of control. Management doesn’t document the slackers and do-nothings. They are afraid to immediately address a problem when it first appears, and then are shocked that a scumbag prevails in court and gets awarded a $2.3 million dollar settlement.
USCS of old would do the hard thing. EVS, I know you remember when a fiery DSAC in LA made a lot of careers because he ranted and raved and pushed and made everyone understand what the goals were and made them understand the mission. He even got the Treasury Secretary to not brief the Secretary of State on the imminent arrests of high ranking and well connected Mexican officials and seized hundreds of millions of dollars while keeping the HQ folks feet to the fire.
Do you remember when Kiki Cammarena was killed? Do you remember that the Deputy Commissioner of Customs TOTALLY CLOSED THE BORDER for days! Senators and Congressmen were screaming…and he just kept it closed. See EVS, thats when our management had balls. They are all well paid eunuchs now keeping the Princesses from hearing that they are in fact without clothes!
You made a lot of excellent points though. We do have to close ranks and pull for our mutual successes and accept together our mutual failings. Not failings of morality, but failures of our grasp exceeding our reach! You sound like an able manager, but you too, I believe are far too insulated from what your rank and file agents really believe. Not that it matters though.
ICE agents are using this forum to express outrage at what has become of this agency. It is a great outlet. Not all of the criticisms are fair, but they are mostly heartfelt and there have been enough failings of our management and cowardice to warrant concern.
It is disengenuous at best and an outright lie at worst to suggest that the average street agent has nothing to fear. Management has routinely punished agents for speaking out. One poster said it correctly that often the label that management puts on the street agent is disgruntled in order to diminish the quality of his arguement.
You have no doubt been around long enough to see hundreds of “dog and pony” shows put on for top management and the worker bees being instructed to softball their questions when in a supposedly open forum. The agent that speaks their mind, their truth is often punished. You know it happens every day. Dare to speak your mind and call a spade, a spade and you get killed! Figuratively of course, but killed nonetheless! And guess what…there are still a lot of actors not getting acting pay. Why would you put that in the ICE successes when you know that your agents know it’s not true? You further erode their trust and confidence. And please, please, please…if you are going to F— me, please kiss me first. ICE has indeed become a Machiavellan place. I will respect my management a whole lot more when they look me in the eyes and say to my face that they are going to kill me. It’s the cowardice, the back alley, internecine shit that I just can’t stomach. I will gladly take my licks if they are righteous and delivered to my face. And guess what? I will take it like a man and NOT FILE EEO or whistle-blower. I’ll be a man of integrity. Try it, it’s very liberating.
You know how IA, I mean OPR can always kill the GS-13 and below, but never a GS-14 and above? Why is that? I would love to see the loyalty demonstrated to protecting each other’s (SES) backs extended to our mission and traditional authorities. Ronald Reagan probably didn’t know the inner working of an ICBM, and you are right…it wasn’t necessary. He always preached his beliefs and publicly called for doing the right thing, even if it went against the grain. He wasn’t afraid to confront evil, injustice or difficult problems. And he knew how to lead! He knew how to communicate and was unafraid to take calculated risks for the opportunity to achieve great things.
I didn’t know Reagan and I don’t know Parmer, but then I am not a veterinarian either, but still can spot a horses ass a mile away! Rome is burning, and all the fiddling in the world won’t put this fire out. You put lipstick on a pig…it is still a pig. We can moderate the tenor of the discourse, but we all have to be willing to fight the good fight because it is the right thing to do. That will be the salvation of ICE. A DHS Secretary that will not cede our jobs and authorities, and a head of ICE that has vision and courage and just at least a pinch of law enforcement experience.
EVS, I know that we are swimming against the tides, but at least we drown fighting.

zambonifed on June 4, 2007 at 5:31 pm

Hey marksman73, lsellers, aka CRACKsellers, has been around long enough to know that he was damn proud to get ANY 1811 job, even if it was Legacy INS, and he is sure as hell not going to let you bunch of whiny crybabies change that. I never took the DHS survey. Maybe it was offered and I just didn’t respond. If I had taken it, I will tell you that I would not have ranked job satisfaction as very high, but I would not have ranked it as very low either. Definitely above middle of the road. Why you may ask? Because for the most part, I have holidays and weekends off, I don’t have to work too many nights, I haven’t been shot at or assaulted yet, and I bring home a heck of a nice paycheck every 2 weeks. I can’t say that for the previous LE jobs I’ve had. I had one LE job I enjoyed a little more, and I’ve had several I hated a lot more. I guess I’m just lucky to work in a SAC office (no Rastis Ruiz it is not SAC Denver, much further east) where I can work criminal cases without any hassles. I think many of you guys are bringing up very good points (other than the frequent Kool-aid reference, grape is my favorite), and hopefully someone in HQ is taking notes. But things are going to have to get a hell of a lot worse for me to start heading for the lifeboats.

lsellers on June 4, 2007 at 5:59 pm

EVS management spin:
“ScottyDog
I frankly don’t have the time to discuss global politics with you. Find someone else to take up that challenge. With all due respect, I got a job to do.”
This comment demonstrates the holier than thou type of management spin that the current ICE operates under.When you cannot win the argument based on facts spin..spin…spin.
Not one thing I wrote was about global politics.
Like I said, no wonder we are being invaded by Mexico people like you do nothing but push paper in your little cubicle.

ScottyDog on June 4, 2007 at 7:21 pm

Zambonifed,
You have made so many good points in your well thought-out posting, I don’t know quite where to start.
Marcy and John are doing the lords work on the seventh floor, and anyone that doesn’t believe this needs to spend a little time up there.
I agree that they could learn to communicate with the field, the rank and file better; unfortunately, they are up to their proverbial asses in alligators, day in and day out.
I haven’t had the opportunity to discuss communication issues with John, but I have spoken to Marcy about it, and she knows she can do better in this area. The problem is, when do you do it? At 2230 when her day gets over?
It is important though, and I think you’ll see more communications from the 7th floor soon.
I know she hears the things that are being said, but you are wrong if you think she directs people to monitor this site. Just doesn’t happen.
There are of course people in HQS that read this site, and she has a lot of friends in the field that probably tell her about it. Marcy is just too damn busy to fool with it.
ICE Clips are well intentioned, but I think they’ve missed the mark as well. I skim through them, but don’t spend any time on them.
I’ve said this a couple of times, and I think it bears repeating. John and Marcy didn’t get a voice in choosing the Secretary or Assistant Secretary. They have to make the best of whatever hand they are dealt. Politicians do things for different reasons than you or I would. This is the same curse that our legacy INS agents had to endure forever, and I’d suggest it’s what led to the demise of that agency.
How do you find a strong leader to take the Secretary of Assistant Secretary job? Who would want to be saddled with the immigration debacle? Not many people throwing their hats in that ring I’m afraid.
I agree that EEO is out of control. Management has to do what’s necessary to ensure that the slackers and people that should have never been hired in the first place are shown the door.
Everybody wants to hand out the awards and the new cars, but nobody wants to be the supervisor doing the counseling session, or recommending time off. You are dead on point.
I remember Casablanca well my friend and I also remember when Von Rabb wanted to go to war with Mexico over our DEA brothers torture and murder. Made me proud to be a Customs Special Agent.
What you don’t see, and what hasn’t been communicated to the field adequately is the fact that there is a lot of pushback taking place in HQS, but you have to carefully choose your battles. I could elaborate more, but it would further identify me, and it would be more appropriate for Director Forman to do so. Hopefully this will come soon.
“It is disingenuous at best and an outright lie at worst to suggest that the average street agent has nothing to fear.” I just don’t buy that premise sir. Everyone has the right to professionally state objections and raise concerns. At least this is the way things are done in my world.
I would not recommend shouting at the SAC in an all-hands meeting, but calm, reasoned arguments are always welcome at my meetings.
I do not want a bunch of “yes-men” surrounding me, and I know that Marcy and Ray are the same. There may be some, but you discard their self-serving counsel. I want honesty above all else.
“The agent that speaks their mind, their truth is often punished.” I’m sure this has happened, but again, not in my world. I have been in some open meetings and felt embarrassment for some of the people who chose the wrong venue to air personal grievances. Again, it’s not so much what you say, but how you say it.
“I didn’t know Reagan and I don’t know Parmer, but then I am not a veterinarian either, but still can spot a horses ass a mile away!” That’s clever my friend. I’m sure if he reads this he’ll get a kick out of it.
I wish you did know Ray. I think you would change your opinion. I’ve known him since he was a baby agent, and he’s a good man.
“EVS, I know that we are swimming against the tides, but at least we drown fighting.” You pull me awhile, and I’ll pull you awhile, and when it’s over, we’ll be on dry land.
Thanks for responding zambonifed. I may be wrong, but I think we’re cut from the same cloth.
Work safe and keep the faith (or keep looking for it anyway),
EVS

EverVigilantSheepdog on June 4, 2007 at 7:30 pm

Looks like a lot of you have plenty of time to sit on this blog…much of it apparently on government time. Why don’t you just do your jobs you and quit crying.

icehaha on June 4, 2007 at 7:39 pm

icehaha,
The truth doesn’t change, and thus, it takes but a few minutes to respond to most of these posts.
Every now and then, someone expresses their views coherently and with conviction, and when that happens, a real exchange of ideas takes place.
It is a beautiful thing.
I think I might just make this part of my job…MaxHR requires us to set goals right?
My goal is to bring as many of you as possible towards the light, and to irritate the piss out of those of you who insist that the sky is falling.
EVS

EverVigilantSheepdog on June 4, 2007 at 10:49 pm

EVS,
You know what I did today at work?? I went looking for this “silent majority” group that you keep referring to. I looked all over my SAC and couldnt seem to locate these people. I mean you said it, so it must be true. I know you are kissing some major butt around ICE HQ and you were damn serious about this “silent majority” crowd. After talking with as many agents, intel geeks, and just good ole admin folks that I could find, not one “slient majority” in the bunch. Now I was fair, I included men and women, all races, even L Agents from both sides. Shit, I even threw in a couple of GS’s, an ASAC, and even a DSAC. Wouldnt you know it, the prevailing theory amongst all these fine people (32)that I talked to was: “Well at least I still get paid every two weeks, ha ha ha.” Not one had any thing positive to say about this agency. NOT ONE. Now this cant be true can it you ass kissing, whipping boy. You typed it on here that we (the bitchers and complainers) were in the minority in ICE. Dont come on here and tell me that this agency somehow is headed in the right direction and will be “THE” law enforcement agency in the land. Spin spin spin away, and keep spreading these fabricated, bullshit stories about ICE. I am tired of people like you always trying to paint a pretty picture and make ICE out to be some wonderful place to be.
But oh well, at least they pay me every two weeks.

kcrat on June 4, 2007 at 10:58 pm

EVS,
I will commend you on your continued optimism and agree with you that this site and postings affords ICE employees a forum in which they may express their views. I also agree with you statement that CBP and ICE should be merged. After that, itís pretty much down hill.
I feel that the previous postings, including yours, highlight what is seriously wrong with ICEís upper management. Oh, by the way, there will not be any ìcrossî legacy bashing.
First off, ICE HQ management fails to admit, recognize or address the existence of a serious morale problem which is causing seasoned agents to bail out. The majority of the agents I work with (on both sides of the legacy fence) are generally not satisfied with the way the agency is currently run and are disgusted daily with the sophomoric HQ mandates.
Second, there is no means of useful or meaningful communication between local and HQ management and field agents.
Third, ICE lacks a CLEARLY stated mission or direction.
Also remember that most of what field agents hear is not something we sit around and make up. The information we hear is coming from disgusted agents in HQ!!!! We arenít making this stuff up. This is whatís coming out of HQ.
And since it appears that you may have some insight into whatís going on with ICE, maybe you can answer a few pointed questions.
Question #1: Is there ever going to be MEANINGFUL cross training of agents, especially veterans?? In our SAC office, duty calls are referred to the group that handles a particular investigative area, except when it comes to Immigration matters. What qualifications does a non-trained legacy Customs agent posses that qualify him/her to intelligently handle an immigration matter?? To be quite honest, if a person is not adequately trained to handle a matter, then they should not be handling it.
Question #2: Should family members be in the same chain of command??
Question #3: Do you feel that an agencyís management has any obligation to clearly communicate agency intention, direction, and overall ìstate of the agencyî to itís employees??
To further illustrate my points, let me use a few examples from agents who have given me permission to use their experiences.
Situation #1: An agent with over 15 years experience takes a GS-14 test and passes it with a mark in the mid 80s. This agent does not get a phone call from HQ, and before the local selections are made, this agent inquires as to the benchmark grade for getting a call from HQ and/or a local selection. The agent never gets a conclusive reply. One of the selections made locally is an agent with about 5 years on (and yes in all fairness, he aced the test). Does experience ever enter into selections??
Situation #2: An agent with almost 20 years on explores the possibility of moving to another area within ICE, but out of OI. The agent applies for announcements but does not get selected (oh, by the way, we never seem to let people know if they WERE NOT selected or WHY NOT, you just find out through the rumor mill that someone else got the job). The agent applied for the same position MORE THAN ONCE with the same result. When the agent makes a discreet inquiry as to ëwhat could one do betterí, the response received is to use more investigative ìauthoritiesî available to that agent.
This situation goes back to question #1. HOW CAN WE USE SOMETHING WE ARE NOT TRAINED FOR????
Can one see how the above situations can lead to frustration and anxiety?? Field level personnel are just looking for answers. And please, donít tell us there coming soon. We have been waiting for four years for ICE to have answers.
Honestly speaking, there have been some managers in my legacy agency that I would have followed straight into hell from G/S, ASACs, SACs all the way up to the Commissioner level. Today, sorry, nothing personal to anyone, Iím not impressed. Oh, and I wonít leave ICE. I will continue to work, the best way I know how. If asked I will supply my suggestions. Other than that, I will just sit back and watch the agency implode.
Oh, and as for ìrabble rousersî, and those who are questioning leadership and authority, the last time I checked a group of unhappy colonists were able to lead a revolution which was responsible for the formation of this great Country.
The agents I work with go to work everyday. We do our job, we answer our phones at all hours and work the weekends and at night. We do it because we have an obligation to fulfill an oath we took. We have an obligation to the citizens of this country, our communities and even to this agency. But we also have an obligation to our families and ourselves to work in a meaningful and rewarding environment. We have an obligation to plan for our familyís future.
Debbie, thank you for this forum. I firmly believe that EVS has been assigned to monitor this site for HQ. Also, posting on your site is cheaper than a shrink.

ICEDover on June 5, 2007 at 12:00 am

Let me tell you something EVS. I will say to your face exactly what I think of you and any of your ass kissing incompetent dawg SACs. Just suspend the 169 page Table of Disciple (and forget that failure to follow an order & insubordination are the ombudsman “crimes” of the month). Or you can offer me “use” immunity and I will tell you more than you ever wanted to hear. Believe me, none of it would be worse than what most SACS say about their agents on a daily basis. Karma will bite you on the ass before the final chapter is written in this story of ICE waste, fraud and mismanagement.
The EEO system is broken? You got that right. You still have a job. YOU are a retaliator who is lucky to have ANY government job. This explains why you are so happy with the current state of ICE. Your mistreatment of hard working agents is legendary. When you become more trouble than you are worth (see the former SAC of Houston & DC) you are HISTORY. Marcy will drop you in the grease quicker than you can say SES. Maybe Commerce will give you a job. I hear Julie has connections over there.
I was a street agent with Marcy in Houston. Obviously I know her a lot better than you do. She has a mouth on her like a sailor. Yet you say, Marcy would never utter those words? LOL Marcy uses language on a daily basis that puts both VP Cheney and Alexander Haig to shame. You MUST be a SAC. You have even less to do than the street agents applying for jobs with all the other agencies. You have time to not only read Debbie but to write paragraph after paragraph without saying anything. BTW dawg, Marcy does read Debbie and has commented on her blog publicly, referring to “her friend” DS. But I must admit, you are right about one thing. Marcy is not the problem. Brown nosing, spineless, egotistical, moron SACs, DSACs & ASACs like YOU are the problem. All of you are afraid to report the truth up the chain. You are a “yes man” who only cares about your own career & ego and not about ICE or the citizens & tax payers of this country. And yes, EVS, I am calling you out. Name the time & the place. Just leave your golf clubs in the trunk of the G ride. Hey, be careful out there dawg. And have a nice day, the ass kissing way!

Rastis P. Rulz on June 5, 2007 at 12:49 am

Let me tell you something EVS. I will say to your face exactly what I think of you and any of your ass kissing incompetent dawg SACs. Just suspend the 169 page Table of Disciple (and forget that failure to follow an order & insubordination are the ombudsman “crimes” of the month). Or you can offer me “use” immunity and I will tell you more than you ever wanted to hear. Believe me, none of it would be worse than what most SACS say about their agents on a daily basis. Karma will bite you on the ass before the final chapter is written in this story of ICE waste, fraud and mismanagement.
The EEO system is broken? You got that right. You still have a job. YOU are a retaliator who is lucky to have ANY government job. This explains why you are so happy with the current state of ICE. Your mistreatment of hard working agents is legendary. When you become more trouble than you are worth (see the former SAC of Houston & DC) you are HISTORY. Marcy will drop you in the grease quicker than you can say SES. Maybe Commerce will give you a job. I hear Julie has connections over there.
I was a street agent with Marcy in Houston. Obviously I know her a lot better than you do. She has a mouth on her like a sailor. Yet you say, Marcy would never utter those words? LOL Marcy uses language on a daily basis that puts both VP Cheney and Alexander Haig to shame. You MUST be a SAC. You have even less to do than the street agents applying for jobs with all the other agencies. You have time to not only read Debbie but to write paragraph after paragraph without saying anything. BTW dawg, Marcy does read Debbie and has commented on her blog publicly, referring to “her friend” DS. But I must admit, you are right about one thing. Marcy is not the problem. Brown nosing, spineless, egotistical, moron SACs, DSACs & ASACs like YOU are the problem. All of you are afraid to report the truth up the chain. You are a “yes man” who only cares about your own career & ego and not about ICE or the citizens & tax payers of this country. And yes, EVS, I am calling you out. Name the time & the place. Just leave your golf clubs in the trunk of the G ride. Hey, be careful out there dawg. And have a nice day, the ass kissing way!

Rastis P. Rulz on June 5, 2007 at 12:56 am

EVS, what is “Ever Vigilant Sheepdog” supposed to refer to, anyway? Are you herding as many illegal aliens into the country as possible?

steve ventry on June 5, 2007 at 1:15 am

I’m going to take your questions out of turn today, as I’m running to keep up, and some of you have brought your game to a higher level, and I believe you guys deserve answers to your questions.
Others amongst us just threaten and bully and act all tough, because on here you can be a 6’6″, 200 pound man of steel, or you can pretend to be a 14 year old girl, longing for her first sexual experience. In other words, you can say things here that you would not freaking dare to say in person. That’s OK though, because communication is taking place.
First for steve ventry. Some time back one of the better written posters on this site quoted from a William F. Bennett 1997 speech to the United States Naval Academy. His quote jarred a memory of this for me, and I went out to the web, and pulled the story up in it’s entirety.
I’ve pasted it on here for you all to read, in case you missed it, or would just like to read it again. It certainly resonates with me, as a military veteran and twenty-five year veteran of U.S. Customs and now ICE. I hope you’ll all consider yourselves “Sheepdogs” after reading this, or will strongly question why you do what you do, and maybe apply for some other job series on USAJOBS.
It’s a long read, but worthwhile:
On Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs – Dave Grossman
By LTC (RET) Dave Grossman, author of “On Killing.”
Honor never grows old, and honor rejoices the heart of age. It does so because honor is, finally, about defending those noble and worthy things that deserve defending, even if it comes at a high cost. In our time, that may mean social disapproval, public scorn, hardship, persecution, or as always,even death itself. The question remains: What is worth defending? What is worth dying for? What is worth living for? – William J. Bennett – in a lecture to the United States Naval Academy November 24, 1997
One Vietnam veteran, an old retired colonel, once said this to me:
“Most of the people in our society are sheep. They are kind, gentle, productive creatures who can only hurt one another by accident.” This is true. Remember, the murder rate is six per 100,000 per year, and the aggravated assault rate is four per 1,000 per year. What this means is that the vast majority of Americans are not inclined to hurt one another. Some estimates say that two million Americans are victims of violent crimes every year, a tragic, staggering number, perhaps an all-time record rate of violent crime. But there are almost 300 million Americans, which means that the odds of being a victim of violent crime is considerably less than one in a hundred on any given year. Furthermore, since many violent crimes are committed by repeat offenders, the actual number of violent citizens is considerably less than two million.
Thus there is a paradox, and we must grasp both ends of the situation: We may well be in the most violent times in history, but violence is still remarkably rare. This is because most citizens are kind, decent people who are not capable of hurting each other, except by accident or under extreme provocation. They are sheep.
I mean nothing negative by calling them sheep. To me it is like the pretty, blue robin’s egg. Inside it is soft and gooey but someday it will grow into something wonderful. But the egg cannot survive without its hard blue shell. Police officers, soldiers, and other warriors are like that shell, and someday the civilization they protect will grow into something wonderful.? For now, though, they need warriors to protect them from the predators.
“Then there are the wolves,” the old war veteran said, “and the wolves feed on the sheep without mercy.” Do you believe there are wolves out there who will feed on the flock without mercy? You better believe it. There are evil men in this world and they are capable of evil deeds. The moment you forget that or pretend it is not so, you become a sheep. There is no safety in denial.
“Then there are sheepdogs,” he went on, “and I’m a sheepdog. I live to protect the flock and confront the wolf.”
If you have no capacity for violence then you are a healthy productive citizen, a sheep. If you have a capacity for violence and no empathy for your fellow citizens, then you have defined an aggressive sociopath, a wolf. But what if you have a capacity for violence, and a deep love for your fellow citizens? What do you have then? A sheepdog, a warrior, someone who is walking the hero’s path. Someone who can walk into the heart of darkness, into the universal human phobia, and walk out unscathed
Let me expand on this old soldier’s excellent model of the sheep, wolves, and sheepdogs. We know that the sheep live in denial, that is what makes them sheep. They do not want to believe that there is evil in the world. They can accept the fact that fires can happen, which is why they want fire extinguishers, fire sprinklers, fire alarms and fire exits throughout their kids’ schools.
But many of them are outraged at the idea of putting an armed police officer in their kid’s school. Our children are thousands of times more likely to be killed or seriously injured by school violence than fire, but the sheep’s only response to the possibility of violence is denial. The idea of someone coming to kill or harm their child is just too hard, and so they chose the path of denial.
The sheep generally do not like the sheepdog. He looks a lot like the wolf. He has fangs and the capacity for violence. The difference, though, is that the sheepdog must not, can not and will not ever harm the sheep. Any sheep dog who intentionally harms the lowliest little lamb will be punished and removed. The world cannot work any other way, at least not in a representative democracy or a republic such as ours.
Still, the sheepdog disturbs the sheep. He is a constant reminder that there are wolves in the land. They would prefer that he didn’t tell them where to go, or give them traffic tickets, or stand at the ready in our airports in camouflage fatigues holding an M-16. The sheep would much rather have the sheepdog cash in his fangs, spray paint himself white, and go, “Baa.”
Until the wolf shows up. Then the entire flock tries desperately to hide behind one lonely sheepdog.
The students, the victims, at Columbine High School were big, tough high school students, and under ordinary circumstances they would not have had the time of day for a police officer. They were not bad kids; they just had nothing to say to a cop. When the school was under attack, however, and SWAT teams were clearing the rooms and hallways, the officers had to physically peel those clinging, sobbing kids off of them. This is how the little lambs feel about their sheepdog when the wolf is at the door.
Look at what happened after September 11, 2001 when the wolf pounded hard on the door. Remember how America, more than ever before, felt differently about their law enforcement officers and military personnel? Remember how many times you heard the word hero?
Understand that there is nothing morally superior about being a sheepdog; it is just what you choose to be. Also understand that a sheepdog is a funny critter: He is always sniffing around out on the perimeter, checking the breeze, barking at things that go bump in the night, and yearning for a righteous battle. That is, the young sheepdogs yearn for a righteous battle. The old sheepdogs are a little older and wiser, but they move to the sound of the guns when needed right along with the young ones.
Here is how the sheep and the sheepdog think differently. The sheep pretend the wolf will never come, but the sheepdog lives for that day. After the attacks on September 11, 2001, most of the sheep, that is, most citizens in America said, “Thank God I wasn’t on one of those planes.” The sheepdogs, the warriors, said, “Dear God, I wish I could have been on one of those planes. Maybe I could have made a difference.” When you are truly transformed into a warrior and have truly invested yourself into warriorhood, you want to be there. You want to be able to make a difference.
There is nothing morally superior about the sheepdog, the warrior, but he does have one real advantage. Only one. And that is that he is able to survive and thrive in an environment that destroys 98 percent of the population. There was research conducted a few years ago with individuals convicted of violent crimes. These cons were in prison for serious, predatory crimes of violence: assaults, murders and killing law enforcement officers. The vast majority said that they specifically targeted victims by body language: slumped walk, passive behavior and lack of awareness. They chose their victims like big cats do in Africa, when they select one out of the herd that is least able to protect itself.
Some people may be destined to be sheep and others might be genetically primed to be wolves or sheepdogs. But I believe that most people can choose which one they want to be, and I’m proud to say that more and more Americans are choosing to become sheepdogs.
Seven months after the attack on September 11, 2001, Todd Beamer was honored in his hometown of Cranbury, New Jersey. Todd, as you recall, was the man on Flight 93 over Pennsylvania who called on his cell phone to alert an operator from United Airlines about the hijacking. When he learned of the other three passenger planes that had been used as weapons, Todd dropped his phone and uttered the words, “Let’s roll,” which authorities believe was a signal to the other passengers to confront the terrorist hijackers. In one hour, a transformation occurred among the passengers – athletes, business people and parents. — from sheep to sheepdogs and together they fought the wolves, ultimately saving an unknown number of lives on the ground.
There is no safety for honest men except by believing all possible evil of evil men. – Edmund Burke
Here is the point I like to emphasize, especially to the thousands of police officers and soldiers I speak to each year. In nature the sheep, real sheep, are born as sheep. Sheepdogs are born that way, and so are wolves. They didn’t have a choice. But you are not a critter. As a human being, you can be whatever you want to be. It is a conscious, moral decision.
If you want to be a sheep, then you can be a sheep and that is okay, but you must understand the price you pay. When the wolf comes, you and your loved ones are going to die if there is not a sheepdog there to protect you. If you want to be a wolf, you can be one, but the sheepdogs are going to hunt you down and you will never have rest, safety, trust or love. But if you want to be a sheepdog and walk the warrior’s path, then you must make a conscious and moral decision every day to dedicate, equip and prepare yourself to thrive in that toxic, corrosive moment when the wolf comes knocking at the door.
For example, many officers carry their weapons in church.? They are well concealed in ankle holsters, shoulder holsters or inside-the-belt holsters tucked into the small of their backs.? Anytime you go to some form of religious service, there is a very good chance that a police officer in your congregation is carrying. You will never know if there is such an individual in your place of worship, until the wolf appears to massacre you and your loved ones.
I was training a group of police officers in Texas, and during the break, one officer asked his friend if he carried his weapon in church. The other cop replied, “I will never be caught without my gun in church.” I asked why he felt so strongly about this, and he told me about a cop he knew who was at a church massacre in Ft. Worth, Texas in 1999. In that incident, a mentally deranged individual came into the church and opened fire, gunning down fourteen people. He said that officer believed he could have saved every life that day if he had been carrying his gun. His own son was shot, and all he could do was throw himself on the boy’s body and wait to die. That cop looked me in the eye and said, “Do you have any idea how hard it would be to live with yourself after that?”
Some individuals would be horrified if they knew this police officer was carrying a weapon in church. They might call him paranoid and would probably scorn him. Yet these same individuals would be enraged and would call for “heads to roll” if they found out that the airbags in their cars were defective, or that the fire extinguisher and fire sprinklers in their kids’ school did not work. They can accept the fact that fires and traffic accidents can happen and that there must be safeguards against them.
Their only response to the wolf, though, is denial, and all too often their response to the sheepdog is scorn and disdain. But the sheepdog quietly asks himself, “Do you have and idea how hard it would be to live with yourself if your loved ones attacked and killed, and you had to stand there helplessly because you were unprepared for that day?”
It is denial that turns people into sheep. Sheep are psychologically destroyed by combat because their only defense is denial, which is counterproductive and destructive, resulting in fear, helplessness and horror when the wolf shows up.
Denial kills you twice. It kills you once, at your moment of truth when you are not physically prepared: you didn’t bring your gun, you didn’t train. Your only defense was wishful thinking. Hope is not a strategy. Denial kills you a second time because even if you do physically survive, you are psychologically shattered by your fear helplessness and horror at your moment of truth.
Gavin de Becker puts it like this in Fear Less, his superb post-9/11 book, which should be required reading for anyone trying to come to terms with our current world situation: “…denial can be seductive, but it has an insidious side effect. For all the peace of mind deniers think they get by saying it isn’t so, the fall they take when faced with new violence is all the more unsettling.”
Denial is a save-now-pay-later scheme, a contract written entirely in small print, for in the long run, the denying person knows the truth on some level.
And so the warrior must strive to confront denial in all aspects of his life, and prepare himself for the day when evil comes. If you are warrior who is legally authorized to carry a weapon and you step outside without that weapon, then you become a sheep, pretending that the bad man will not come today. No one can be “on” 24/7, for a lifetime. Everyone needs down time. But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to yourself…
“Baa.”
This business of being a sheep or a sheep dog is not a yes-no dichotomy. It is not an all-or-nothing, either-or choice. It is a matter of degrees, a continuum. On one end is an abject, head-in-the-sand-sheep and on the other end is the ultimate warrior. Few people exist completely on one end or the other. Most of us live somewhere in between. Since 9-11 almost everyone in America took a step up that continuum, away from denial. The sheep took a few steps toward accepting and appreciating their warriors, and the warriors started taking their job more seriously. The degree to which you move up that continuum, away from sheephood and denial, is the degree to which you and your loved ones will survive, physically and psychologically at your moment of truth.
Now steve, you know why I refer to myself as EVS.
Kcrat,
I’d like to commend you sir on bringing your “A” game today. If anyone takes the time to compare your most recent post to earlier posts from you they will see that you are starting to take yourself a little more serious.
You can’t resist insulting opposing views, and calling names though, and you even attempt to insult some of the intel people you alledgely work with. I’m sure they’ll love you for including them in your spew.
You say you talked with 32 people today, and they said “Well at least I still get paid every two weeks, ha ha ha.” Not one had any thing positive to say about this agency. NOT ONE.”
I would be willing to bet you that if I had a conversation with those same 32 employees, I’d get a different response from many, if not all.
You can do polls with slanted questions and get the answers to agree with your pre-conceived conclusion every day of the week. Do you think your questions were fair? Of course you do.
Here’s your homework assignment Kcrat…go back and ask those 32 people what it is about their jobs that they like, what it is about ICE that they like, and what it is about ICE they would change if they were “King for a Day”. The answers to those questions might surprise you.
“I am tired of people like you always trying to paint a pretty picture and make ICE out to be some wonderful place to be. ”
What you are really saying is I only want to talk to people that agree with me, and who have no opposing views.
Is that what this country is all about? Might want to check out the housing market in Cuba as a retirement location my friend if you think this is your idea of nirvana. Wake up and smell the coffee Kcrat!!!
Rastis,
I guess my little song parody got under your skin. LOL Well at least you came back for another ass whipping. Says a lot about your character.
“The EEO system is broken? You got that right. You still have a job. YOU are a retaliator who is lucky to have ANY government job. This explains why you are so happy with the current state of ICE. Your mistreatment of hard working agents is legendary.” You don’t even know who I am, but you say I’m a retaliator, who is lucky to have ANY government job.
I’ve never once retaliated against an employee for any reason. I’ve never been successfully sued, or grieved. You know why? Of course not, but I’ll tell you anyway. I treat people fairly NOT equally, and I don’t discriminate against anyone. EEO’s are in my humble opinion, used by largely by the employee that can’t get ahead on merit and performance. They use EEO to file pre-emptive strikes in weak attempts to deflect legitimate disciplinary action. I’m not saying there aren’t legitimate EEO cases, as I’m sure there are some. I just haven’t had any experience with one yet.
If I were “King for the Day” the EEO system would be one of my first fixes. In EVS’s kingdon, everyone would get one free EEO, and if you did not prevail, every subsequent filing would be on your dime, up to the time that you won, and when that happened, you would be reimbursed for your expenses and paid your settlement on top of that. EVS’s EEO programs would knock the frivolous EEO’s waaaay down, and silence the “frequent filers”.
“I was a street agent with Marcy in Houston. Obviously I know her a lot better than you do.” Says who? Just because you say it, doesn’t make it so my friend.
“She has a mouth on her like a sailor. Yet you say, Marcy would never utter those words? LOL Marcy uses language on a daily basis that puts both VP Cheney and Alexander Haig to shame.”
Are you saying sir, that Marcy is a racist, as she’s been accused of? If you think is the case, you don’t know Marcy at all. Yeah she talks like we do sometimes, but she grew up, and has been quite sucessful in this “mans world” and sometimes men use language that would offend the sensitive girly men out there. So what? Does that make her a racist? I think not.
“Marcy is not the problem. Brown nosing, spineless, egotistical, moron SACs, DSACs & ASACs like YOU are the problem. All of you are afraid to report the truth up the chain. You are a “yes man” who only cares about your own career & ego and not about ICE or the citizens & tax payers of this country.”
Well sir, I agree with your first sentence there. Marcy is not the problem. She is pulling the wagon for you and me, and all the other ICE agents out there that give 110% each and every day to make this agency work.
The rest of that quote is wasted ink. Again, you don’t know me, for if you did, you would never say I was a “yes man” concerned about my career.
I told the Assistant Secretary once that she and I had something in common. She asked “how so?” And I said that “you and I are as high up in this agency as we are going to get”.
I am at the end of my journey, with no aspirations for anything more. I’ve had a fine career, could have retired over a year and a half ago, but have no retirement plans to speak of right now. I’ll put my career accomplishments alongside yours sir, any day of the week. I bet I’m responsible for more people serving life without parole than you are. Wanna bet?
Before I got promoted a number of times, I was a “working agent”, not just a street agent. I put a lot of folks in prison, for a long, long time. Didn’t do it all by myself mind you, but was blessed with some outstanding supervisors, partners and groups of agents along the way.
I love the people I work with, feel like I’m contributing in some small ways to make their lives better, and feel like we’re doing work worth doing. Call me corny, call me a yes man, call me the Ever Vigilant Sheepdog, but it is what it is.
“And yes, EVS, I am calling you out. Name the time & the place. Just leave your golf clubs in the trunk of the G ride. Hey, be careful out there dawg. And have a nice day, the ass kissing way!”
You wouldn’t want to make that mistake outside this virtual world my friend. LOL You have a nice day.
ICEDover,
Your latest post is by far your best work on here. You raise a lot of valid points, and I’m hopeful that someone will print it out, and show it to Director Forman and Deputy Director Parmer.
I haven’t been “assigned to monitor this site by HQS” as you opined, but I do have access to the decision makers, and I’ll use that access for the good of us all, if it’s all the same to you.
I can take a stab at answering some of your questions, but as I’m not in HQS, with access to the vision for some of these topics, I’m afraid I would come up short, and you deserve better my friend.
Rather than do this, I think I’ll cut and paste your post into an email, send it up my chain of command, and see if we can get you some answers. Is that fair?
I’m not dodging your questions (as I know some will say), but I think you raise some valid points, that could be better answered from HQS. If I don’t get an answer pretty soon, I’ll give you my answers. Fair enough?
Boys and Girls,
I’m off to do the lords work, and will be away from my computer for the next couple of days. Please continue to send your cards and letters, but understand it will probably be the weekend before I have time to respond.
Work safe,
EVS

EverVigilantSheepdog on June 5, 2007 at 7:38 am

EVS,
Thank you for your response (my parents always taught me that respect and politness were paramount). However, your answer is unacceptable, as it is the same answer we have been getting for the past few years. Field level agents seem to get alot of gibberish and promises, but we never see any action.
Please (again with the politness), a response is requested since you seem to be very willing to bash us unhappy campers as the minority and you may have an “in” or portray yourself to be in the “know”. I and many of my fellow co-workers are getting a bit tired of the reply, “we’ll get right back to you.” It usually does not happen.

ICEDover on June 5, 2007 at 8:10 am

EVS,since you seem to be in a gambling mood. I bet you’re a jack ass and a former jar head just like Gomer Pyle. I never called Marcy a racist, and don’t believe she is racist but she did in fact utter the words, “black ass” and has said much worse. Your “white ass” is delusional by the way. Life without a parole? LOL Take your meds. And for the record, I have more time in service, more convictions and a hell of a lot more sense than you will ever have. I do concede that you hold one record that will never be broken in ICE/CUSTOMS, MORON OF THE MONTH. Your alligator mouth is writing checks that your gnat ass can’t cash. When and where, LapDawg?

Rastis P. Rulz on June 5, 2007 at 8:30 am

Thanks EVS. I did throw in for that lateral 1811 deal, so hopefully I’ll make the BQL. To all those who post on this blog … there are far worse places out there than ICE. ICE has its share of problems, no doubt, and we all know what they are. But other places also have problems. Right now I’d go back to ICE in a heartbeat. Try 60-70 percent travel, no 24/7 carry, and very little semblance of law enforcement. Trust me; ICE ain’t that bad.

FormerICE on June 5, 2007 at 8:36 am

Well EVS, after careful review, I see that you have outed yourself right here on DB! NOW I know why you are so in love with Marcy. You owe her your entire career. If not for Marcy you would still be on the Police Department. If not for Marcy, you would not have ridden the fast train from SA to SSA to GS to ASAC to DSAC to SAC. Congratulations on your recent promotion. Does your wife still work for you or has she transferred to OPR? And btw, you don’t retire because of your ego and more importantly your meager FERS retirement. You can’t afford to retire and being king is your thing! Have a nice day and GO SPURS!

Rastis P. Rulz on June 5, 2007 at 8:55 am

ICEDover,
I told you I’d get you an answer, and I’m a man of my word. (There Rastis, you now know I’m a man:). I can’t control how fast it will be, and like I said, if HQS doesn’t respond to me by this weekend, I’ll give you my honest opinion for what it’s worth. I haven’t lied to you yet, and I’m not about to start.
Now for my favorite pet Ratstis,
“And for the record, I have more time in service, more convictions and a hell of a lot more sense than you will ever have.”
How can you utter this nonsense, since you don’t know who I am? My initials aren’t JR. I sure hope you do your real investigations better than you guess identities on a blog.
Wait a minute, I know who you are! You are that SAC/Houston agent that got his 13 when the welfare 13’s were handed out, because you couldn’t do a case of any complexity or consequence. You always wanted to be a 14, but your local management knew you didn’t have the requisite skill sets. And you outed your self right here on DB. You make me laugh rastsass.
And for the record, and this is directed to ICEDover particularly, I don’t bash the unhappy campers, but I can’t help myself when I’m attacked by stupidity like the Rastaman. I bet he gets tired of being told he’s stupid all the time. LOL
Alright boys and girls, I’m off on the road for a couple of days. Have fun, stay safe, and keep those cards and letter coming.
EVS

EverVigilantSheepdog on June 5, 2007 at 10:18 am

Shocking that Everloving Lapdog is a SAC! He tried in earlier posts to portray himself as ‘one of the troops’ by saying he was not an SES, SAC, etc. And he even said things like ‘my SAC’, blah-blah. Please someone intervene before Rasta and EVS duke it out. I threatened to punk EVS, but I didn’t mean it literally. Can’t we all just get along?
-Here it is in a nutshell for those who need pictures – ICE is supposedly the investigative arm of DHS, no? Great, so we do terrorism, right? Nope, that would be the Famous But Incompetent (FBI), who screwed up in the first place. Okay, then we do drug cases, right? Well, sort of, but Don’t Expect Anything (DEA) does those. Oh, I see, I guess that leaves us with Immigration. Anyone want to arm-wrestle us over that can o’ worms? Nope. Well I guess that’s that. But wait, we don’t just “pick low-hanging fruit” and grab ordinary illegal aliens, that’s beneath us, so we work the complex cases against their employers.
Well, I know I keep going back to it, but that was attempted last winter and the wasted $$ on that was mind-boggling. To my knowledge, NONE of the employers went to jail, and the ratio of TDY agents to aliens was like 2:1. BP Agents are laughing at what a farce worksite enforcement has become. It has to go through how much scrutiny ahead of time? The result is nobody does interior enforcement at all and we now realize there’s an alien problem.
Now, the frustration is institutional and Marcy and John (As the supposed grunt EVS calls them) may be sharing our frustration, but they get paid to lead and take care of this sh#t, not give a sob story about how lonely it is at the top. If they can’t fix this, then they should follow their own guidance and hit the bricks. I’m one of these agents who used to charge the hill, and I still would, provided I were given a hill to charge. It appears even the leavings of immigration enforcement has been watered down to where they’ve taken any fun out of it. So, the result again is, nobody does anything. Now they recently added yet another layer of HQ to jump through. They should sh$tcan HQ altogether, unleash the hounds and let the field go back to work and get ‘er done. In this virtual world, why do we need to talk to some desk officer who doesn’t know where Laredo is on a map? Aw fuggit, I’m going to finish my lunch and go back to work. BTW, where’s Ms. Forman’s blog? Interesting to read what Everloving Lapdog has written on her behalf.

q2thecore on June 5, 2007 at 1:29 pm

Ms. Schlussel:
I had the chance to review your post that has precipitated probably the most volumnious response in the history of the blog – almost 100 posts.
In reviewing your comments, I found two things that were very interesting, and I’d like you to reply, if you can:
1. It continues, at least in my humble opinion, to be your position that ICE’s pre-eminent, or even sole, concern, should be immigration enforcement. Rarely do I see you talk about drugs, “dirty money” or weapons (unless it relates to Islamic terrorism) being an enforcement priority, or even a concern for ICE as an agency. ICE agents, especially the legacy Customs agents, envisioned an agency where immigration would be a tool for a greater end, not an end all unto itself, because the whole concept of immigration enforcement by itself was too politically charged, whereas issues like drugs, “dirty” money and weapons were not.
2. You often refer to ICE-OI as if is is the sole enforcement arm of immigration law in this country. Please remember that CBP Inspections, CBP-Border Patrol, ICE-DRO and CIS ALL have a role in the enforcement of U.S. immigration laws, and I don’t think they are as “problem-free” as the disproportinate number of posts regarding the problems in ICE-OI (and there are many, I agree) make them out to be. In other words, ICE-OI is not the SOLE, or even overriding, cause of all that ails immigration enforcement in this country; it starts with the President, continues through Congress and trickles down the political river that is DHS and its enforcement branches (CBP and ICE).
I, and many others, I’m sure, are interested in your potential reply.

4EVERCUSTOMS on June 5, 2007 at 6:03 pm

4EVER, you wrote something that I think touches on the problem. “You often refer to ICE-OI as if it is the sole enforcement arm of immigration law in this country.” Perception is everything. Most people in the US including Debbie perceive ICE as enforcing and investigating violations of immigration laws. Most people don’t realize ICE also enforces and investigates violations of customs laws. The other problem being that most Customs OI Special Agents(not Legacy Customs, I’m a Customs Special Agent and always will be!)don’t want to have anything to do with Immigration. End of Story, nothing else needs to be said. With that said we at ICE still have a job to do. Unfortunately our leadership is inept. I wish Marcy would stand up and say enough is enough! You former Immigration people sit down and shut up! Your agency was broken. We at Customs OI were not. Now get in line or get the fu** out. I’ve heard her speak. I’ve met her. She’s got the balls to do it. I think she is bowing to political pressure.
Now I’m going to tell you a little story about two generations of Customs Special Agents:
As a child I saw my father as a Marine, Police Officer and Customs Special Agent. I knew by the time I was six that I wanted to follow in his footsteps. In his first years as a Customs Special Agent we were stationed on the border. He worked 18-20 hours a day chasing drug smugglers. I would sit and listen to his radio traffic on a police scanner he bought for us. He wanted us to know where he was. I remember him calling out a surveillance that went right down our street. I flew to the window and yelled there goes my dad! I remember the hard times he went through when DEA was created and the choice he had to make. Half of his office went to DEA and the other half stayed with Customs. I remember him saying how well Customs treated him and thought he would stay awhile. By the time I was a teenager I was anxious to get into law enforcement. He encouraged me to join the USMC. I did and went to college at the same time. When I graduated from college I wanted to go right into the US Customs Service. Again my father offered his advice and suggested the Border Patrol first. I took his advice and spent three great years in the patrol. However, I learned first hand how broken the INS was. Finally I got the call from the Customs Service and became a Special Agent. The day I graduated from the Academy, my father pinned my badge on. By then he was retired. He told me what a great outfit Customs was and how proud he was that I decided to follow in his footsteps. I’ve never regreted being an Agent. I spent 13 years on the border and have experienced and seen things that would make your jaw drop. I’ve met a lot of good people and a few assholes along the way. I’ve been shot at, I’ve driven at speeds that no normal person would drive, I’ve seen things that made me laugh and things that made me take a knee and pray to God. I wouldn’t trade it for anything. But now the days are dark and morale is low. I can retire in five years but don’t know if I can hang on. When my Dad and I talk about what has happened to the Customs Service, we both get that far away look in our eyes and just shake our heads. I hope things chsnge. I can honestly say that it will be the field agents that take this agency back. I think Debbie’s blog will help us do just that.
As for EverVigilantSheepdog, you sir are a “yes man” and pose a greater threat than the broken INS. One day you will see the light brother!

tdyinhell on June 5, 2007 at 7:32 pm

Dear “TDY”:
I, too, had family in the legacy INS (Investigations); he retired in 1980. I remember that he used to describe enjoying his work in the late 50’s and 60’s, but saw the “creep” of politics into immigration enforcement throughout the 70’s and decided to pack it in. I recall distinctly his last visit to us in New York before he retired – while gregarious as ever, you could tell he had QUITE enough of the B.S. at that point, and decided to enjoy his cigars, the dog races and a steaming bowl of pasta in peace until his death in the mid-90’s.
When I joined the legacy INS as an Inspector in the early 90’s, he had a certain pride that I followed in his footsteps, to a point. Like your dad, he encouraged me to spend 2-3 years in the agency, then go to Customs – it was a career path that I NEVER regretted.
What pains me so much is that, in previous posts, I asked seven, yes SEVEN very specific questions regarding the current state of ICE – all I can get in reply is either denial, spin or no reply at all. As a consequence, I have taken comfort in the advice of an old Syrian Jewish friend of mine, who told me: “If one man calls you a fool-ignore him; if two call you a fool-put on the minstrel suit, and, if three call you a fool- pull out the juggling balls and follow behind the king and his court”. Or, a parallel saying: “If it looks, waddles and quacks like a duck, it’s most likely a duck”.
You can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time, but not all of us all of the time. We, the legacy Customs agents who have raised VERY SALIENT points and issues are NOT crazy and in need of meds or EAP counseling (as some respondents have nastily insinuated). What we DO need is leadership, integrity and a PLAN OF ACTION – all of which we are sorely lacking right now, and to which I pray there will be a solution in relatively short order, before we implode and fail our mission and duty to the American people on ALL fronts – immigration AND customs enforcement.

4EVERCUSTOMS on June 5, 2007 at 8:34 pm

woohoo! I am post number 100! Anyways, I have a few friends on both sides of the Great Divide, here in San D and in LA. What’s happening here is happening there. People are getting 14s without any announcements being posted. How is that possible? Who do I complain to about that? OPR? OIG? No one, because PP and her gang won’t allow any complaints to go far. Reading all these posts, I think I have figured out EVS’s identity. EVS, you ever work in Customs IA and ICE OPR? You a SAC now with another agency in DHS?

SDGOICE on June 6, 2007 at 12:15 am