December 6, 2009, - 3:32 pm

Why is AirTran Lying About & Attacking Its Customers?: The Answers, Documents AirTran Won’t Provide

By Debbie Schlussel

Why is AirTran lying about its passengers?  And why would you believe the company that refuses to answer important questions or release documents to back up their claims?  The airline may face a lawsuit, which will finally uncover the proof that a dry run was conducted by 11 Muslim men, and it tried to force passengers to fly with them, anyway.

airtranlying

As readers know, on Thursday, I posted an e-mail written by Tedd J. Petruna, a NASA employee who was on AirTran Flight 297 from Atlanta to Houston on November 17th of this year.

He recounted in the e-mail–which he never intended to go public all around the internet–how 11 Middle Eastern men, likely Muslims, conducted what appeared to be a dry run.  He wrote the e-mail to dispute the lie AirTran told the press that the flight was canceled because a man refused to stop talking on his cell phone.  AirTran, by the way, has never released the name of that man.  (Gee, could it be because his name is Mohammed or Ahmed, and he isn’t  “a Spanish gentleman” as the airline claims?  Hey, Spanish, Muslim–“they all look alike,” right AirTran?)

Since then, I noted that Chaplain Dr. Keith A. Robinson has come forth to describe his experience as a passenger on that same flight, writing about it and giving an exclusive interview to nationally syndicated radio talk show host, Steve Gill.

And now, the long knives of AirTran public relations have come out.  AirTran told the Atlanta Urinal-Constipation, er . . . Journal-Constitution that Petruna was not on the flight (well, at least in this case, there’s no constipation, as the paper is full of crap).  And instantly, everyone believes AirTran, without seeing the official passenger manifest or any documentation whatsoever.  Everyone, except me and most of my readers (not the trolls who are now commenting).

Tedd Petruna tells me he was indeed on the flight and, afterward, wrote a long report for the airline about what happened on the flight.  He says he’s shocked that AirTran is saying the TSA officials were never there, that the airline has the guts to flat out deny what happened on that flight and in the aftermath.  There are plenty of records of his being on the flight and what happened, and he’s considering suing AirTran for lying about it and defaming him.  Petruna predicted he’d be attacked for telling the truth about what happened on Flight 297, and he was right.  But he told me that he never thought AirTran would lie and claim he wasn’t on the flight.

In my view, it’s not up to Tedd Petruna to prove  he was on the flight.  It’s AirTran’s move to prove he wasn’t.  Merely saying so (and lying) isn’t enough.

Since the AJC’s report of AirTran’s lie, er . . . “claim” that Petruna wasn’t on Flight 297 on November 17th, I’ve come under attack by mostly far-left blogs, like Daily Kos, Democratic Underground, Joshua Micah Marshall and his Talking Points Memo, and the like, and many of their blind follower trolls have posted attack comments on this site.  I find that extremely interesting, since this bunch is almost always anti-corporate America.  They never believe a single thing an American corporation says and always see the worst in them, including cover-ups (like this one).  But suddenly, when it will help lull us back into the pretense that Muslims are not a threat in America and aren’t constantly planning attacks on planes and elsewhere and testing the system, these far-lefties have put blind faith into the claims of AirTran, a corporation.

But I don’t put blind faith into it.  Sooner or later, crew members who left Flight 297 and refused to fly–and who had to be replaced–will come out and tell the truth about what happened on that flight.  Sooner or later, AirTran and the TSA will have to release documents detailing what happened on that flight, documents that will include Tedd Petruna’s report they asked him to write for them, and the agreement they forced him to sign agreeing not to speak about what happened to the media, while they “investigated” . . . and apparently while they engaged in character assassination of their customers.

But the fact is, you don’t cancel a flight, and a crew doesn’t refuse to fly a plane because a man refused to stop talking on his cell phone and was escorted off the plane.  That’s clearly not what happened on Flight 297.  Yet, that was the lie AirTran told the press.  And AirTran is consistent.  The airline is still lying.  And it’s story is constantly changing.  First, it was one man who wouldn’t get off his cellphone.  Now, it’s a whole group of “Spanish-speaking men.”  Uh-huh.  Sure.

Here are the questions and documents on which AirTran has yet to be forthcoming:

1)  A full passenger manifest for Flight 297 from November 17th:  I’d bet it will not only show that Tedd Petruna was on the flight, but also that at least 11 men with Middle-Eastern and/or Muslim names were on it, too.  I doubt there will be 11 “Spanish” names on the manifest.  If AirTran has privacy concerns about passenger’s names, the Airline certainly didn’t have any privacy concerns about releasing (and faking) Tedd Petruna’s itinerary without his premission.  Sorry, I don’t believe AirTran, and I’m not going to take it’s word that Petruna wasn’t on the flight.  I need to see the official manifest, with proof that it wasn’t doctored.

2)  The name of the passenger AirTran claims was the reason the flight was cancelled–the man who refused to stop talking on his cellphone.

3)  The names and contact information of all crew members of AirTran Flight 297 from November 17th, including the first crew that got off the plane and refused to fly.

4)  Why did AirTran cancel Flight 297 on November 17th, if it was just a problem of a man not talking on his cell phone?  Once he was escorted off the flight, why didn’t they fly?  AirTran officials were willing to suffer the cost of a canceled flight because a passenger wouldn’t get off his cell phone?  If you believe that, I have some land on the runway at Atlanta Hartsfield to sell you.

5)  Why did an entire flight crew, including the captain and co-pilot, get off the flight and refuse to fly, if it was merely a problem of a single passenger refusing to stop talking on his cellphone?  Why was the entire crew replaced?

Why would AirTran lie and resort to attacking its own passengers, its own customer base?  It’s all about money.  No-one wants to fly on an airline that tries to force its passengers to fly with terrorists, even after the crew has evacuated the plane and refuses to fly it.  No-one wants to fly on an airline that cares that little about the safety of its passengers.

And, now, no-one should want to fly on an airline that will go so far to cover it up–so far to pretend that a dry run or testing the system of some sort was not conducted on its flight by 11 Muslim passengers–that it will now attack its passengers and engage in the character assassination of its customers.

I certainly won’t.

***

By the way, Tedd Petruna admits that he is unsure of some details in his e-mail–and e-mail he never intended to be distributed throughout the internet, like that the men were Muslim as opposed to “Arabic.”  But how many men speaking Arabic, conducting a dry run of a hijacking are Christian Arabs?  In the old days, yes, there were Christian Arab terrorists, like George Habash of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, and others.  But today, they are either Muslims or working for them.  It was a fair assumption on Petruna’s part, and likely an accurate observation.

But we’ll never know for sure, until AirTran voluntarily releases the passenger manifest . . . or it comes out as part of discovery in a lawsuit, the latter of which is more likely to happen.




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268 Responses

Re: the full flight manifest:

1. Exactly what sort of “proof that it wasn’t doctored” would be sufficient for you, considering that it only exists inside the AirTran mainframe computers? You want to see a copy of every information transaction relating to that flight since it was first opened for sale, so that you can re-construct the end manifest from the individual ticket sales, seat reservations, and boarding pass issuances? Good luck getting that.

2. Unless you’re going to file a lawsuit against AirTran, you have no right to see the names of any passenger or any crewmember on that plane. Passengers have an expected right to their privacy, unless they choose to give up that right. And releasing the names of airline crew members could lead to a breach of the security you claim to be so concerned about.

All that is beside the point, however. Tedd Petruna, and you, are accusing AirTran, the TSA, the Atlanta Journal Constitution, and other passengers with accounts that differ from Petruna’s, of lying and conspiracy. The burden of proof is on you, not them – either find somebody willing to corroborate Petruna’s account (somebody who was actually on the plane, not Rev. Robinson’s copyrighted hearsay), or admit that you’ve been suckered by somebody with a hero complex.

MS: Ah, another one of the blind faithers. Um, you sound like AirTran’s lawyers preparing to fight discovery in the lawsuit. There is plenty of paperwork on why the flight was grounded. Get a clue. And as for “other passengers,” where are they? Who are they? The story has already changed from a man wouldn’t get off his cellphone to several Spanish speaking people. Why did AirTran change its story? DS

Michael Sheridan on December 6, 2009 at 3:55 pm

    [Michael Sheridan – Exactly what sort of “proof that it wasn’t doctored” would be sufficient for you, considering that it only exists inside the AirTran mainframe computers?]

    Not true. I used to work in the Airline Industry. The flight crew has at least one copy of the manifest on board. Additionally it might have been possible for Petruna to have boarded at the very last instant and for that reason he was not on the manifest (This was possible prior to 9/11, I don’t know about now).

    I_AM_ME on December 6, 2009 at 4:28 pm

    “MS: Ah, another one of the blind faithers. Um, you sound like AirTran’s lawyers preparing to fight discovery in the lawsuit. There is plenty of paperwork on why the flight was grounded. Get a clue. And as for “other passengers,” where are they? Who are they? The story has already changed from a man wouldn’t get off his cellphone to several Spanish speaking people. Why did AirTran change its story? DS”

    1. You asked for the flight manifest, not documentation regarding the temporary flight grounding. I simply told you why you’re going to have a tough time getting something that will satisfy your curiosity, and why you have no right to that information anyway.

    2. “Other passengers”: At least one other named passenger has come forward, as quoted in the AJC story, who tells a completely different story from that of Petruna. Her story matches that given by the airline and the TSA.

    3. “The story has changed”: As far as I can tell, AirTran has told a consistent story, and has never mentioned the language being spoken by the passengers in question. The other passenger is the one who claimed they were Spanish-speakers in ordinary clothing rather than the Arab speakers in “Muslim attire” as claimed by Petruna.

    You’re calling me a “blind faither”, for believing in the version of this incident that has been backed up by multiple sources, while you’re putting all your trust in one person who put his story on FaceBook. I don’t think I’m the person here who needs to get a clue.

    Michael Sheridan on December 6, 2009 at 4:53 pm

If those 11 passengers had been Christian, Jewish, Mexican or just about anything but Muslim I’m sure you’d know it by now. That alone gives me a good idea of who they were. But of course, AirTran wouldn’t want to defame the “good name of islam” now would they?
I’m definetely not a sue-sue-sue kind-a-guy I’d love to see the passengers sue this airline (and a counter-sue against the “flying imams” would be awesome).
Deb, do you think they’d have a good case?

theShadow on December 6, 2009 at 4:09 pm

    ooops…that should read
    I’m definetely not a sue-sue-sue kind-a-guy BUT I’d love to see the passengers sue this airline (and a counter-sue against the “flying imams” BY THE OTHER PASSENGERS would be awesome).

    theShadow on December 6, 2009 at 4:21 pm

I am not sure if this is playing into how Airtan is reacting, but does anyone remember an airline called Valujet? They had a crash in the Florida Everglades (I still remember seeing video of those searching for the data recorders – they had to be guarded by snipers because of alligators/crocodiles). The publicity from that crash was so bad Valujet had to merge with another, much smaller, airline and used the name of the smaller airline.

I seem to remember Valujet’s policies were so ridiculous that pilots were only paid if their flights took off (meaning their was a dis-incentive to canceling a flight if a pilot found something wrong).

I am thinking that this airline’s past may be causing them to make the choices they are now.

I_AM_ME on December 6, 2009 at 4:17 pm

    You do realize that AirWays Corp., the corporation that merged with ValuJet, is also owner of AirTran, right?

    theShadow on December 6, 2009 at 9:48 pm

Lawsuit? I understand Orly Taitz is between gigs right now…

Richardo on December 6, 2009 at 4:26 pm

Debbie, do you read these comments? Petruna said he did not complete the flight, he went on a later one, therefore AirTran is correct in saying that he was not on it. Ask Mr. Petruna to provide you a copy of his original boarding pass so you can post it here and we can start to believe your/his story. Why are none of the other passengers or flight crew coming forward to verify this terrifying story?

Daniel Showalter on December 6, 2009 at 4:29 pm

Don’t give up Debbie, don’t ever give up. I see the pursuit of this story having legs for weeks to come.

And let’s remember the most important point, the “details” people are arguing about aren’t whats important. What’s important is that we know that the Muslim world is arrayed against us and unified in their plans to attack our freedoms. It is in that light that we should interpret what is true about this story, not via some arbitrary lens such as the “flight manifest” or what “actually happened”.

Lyddea on December 6, 2009 at 4:48 pm

    The only people that are attacking our freedoms are the people who perpetuate hate, people like yourself. This country was founded on the belief that all were equal and all should get the chance to be equal. INCLUDING MUSLIMS. So get your bigoted head out of your arshole

    TrueAmerican on December 7, 2009 at 2:40 am

What does Michael Sheridan have to lose/gain in this?

dm60462 on December 6, 2009 at 5:04 pm

    “What does Michael Sheridan have to lose/gain in this?

    dm60462 on December 6, 2009 at 5:04 pm”

    To put your mind at rest, I don’t work for AirTran, or the TSA, or the AJC, or any other airline, government agency, or media outlet, Point of fact, like a lot of other people, I’m “between jobs” right now. The only dog I have in this fight is a desire to have a few more people in this country thinking rationally, rather than going off half-cocked every time somebody tells them a story that seems to agree with their pre-existing notions.

    You might just as well ask what Debbie Schlussel has to lose or gain in this by continuing to push a story that is looking flimsier by the day.

    Michael Sheridan on December 6, 2009 at 5:12 pm

My guess is that Mr. Petruna has his boarding pass electronically if he flies often with the airline. So, I think that is probably a no brainer to know if he was on the manifest or not.

I agree with Debbie, 100%, this airlines is hiding something, and eventually we will find out what. This whole episode reeks of a plan of some sort.

I do have one other consideration in a new crew coming on board though. It is possible that the 2.5 hour delay would have put the original crew over the allowed number of hours they can be working according to FAA regs. They are only allowed so many flying hours a day, and being on the plane may have factored into that.

I am looking forward to their coming forward with their side of things as well.

sueb on December 6, 2009 at 5:42 pm

    [sueb – I do have one other consideration in a new crew coming on board though. It is possible that the 2.5 hour delay would have put the original crew over the allowed number of hours they can be working according to FAA regs.]

    Having worked in the airline industry I find that to be more likely for part of the crew, and unlikely (but definitely not impossible) for the rest of the crew.

    I_AM_ME on December 6, 2009 at 6:18 pm

As an enlisted soldier in VietNam, I became a non-believer in most news organizations when I saw how they distorted events I was a witness to.
There are some I disbelieve even more than most and the Atlanta Journal-Constitution is near the top of that list. As a matter of principal, if it appears in the AJC and I cannot verify it independently, I almost always assume it is either a lie or a very bent truth, never the straight news as it occurred.
For the above reason, I tend to believe the outline and at least the basic premise of the Petruna email.

An independent thinker on December 6, 2009 at 5:55 pm

Good One Debbie. Go Glenn Beck.

Publish the most preposterous and already clearly debunked racist myth and inflame the ignorant redneck teabagger bigoted white trash in their hatred of someone who happens to believe in a different God.

Hey, it’s good for traffic. Who cares about the truth and spreading hated. You’ve got to make money after all.

jharp on December 6, 2009 at 6:02 pm

    You’ve got a helluva lot of nerve preaching to anybody about spreading hatred.

    Becky on December 7, 2009 at 12:01 am

    “Publish the most preposterous and already clearly debunked racist myth and inflame the ignorant redneck teabagger bigoted white trash in their hatred of someone who happens to believe in a different God.”

    My aren’t we the little bigot now in using white trash, redneck, etc. You need to get ahold of some mental “Draino”.

    Worry01 on December 7, 2009 at 1:44 am

Islam is a race? WOW! who knew? And all this time I thought it was just some silly cult…

theShadow on December 6, 2009 at 6:17 pm

Michael Sheridan make many very important points and I think I’ll some more – especially regarding the appeal of our enemies to our emotions specifically targetting pre-existing notions that we may or may not have.

I have fought the battle that Michael Sheridan is fighting over at Alipac myself. I’ll get straight to the gist:

There are now 4 stories that stolid conservatives and libertarians who value sovereignty, culture and borders and our COTUSOA must watch out for and not respond to “half-cocked” every time they pop up:

AirTrans 297 (New)
The Bird Feeder (Old)
From a Teacher in LA (Old)
Inner Neighborhood Services (OLD)

While all 4 of the above are very ingenious – great reads – and can be described as kick ass reads to pass along to friends – CAREFUL – that is exactly the trap.

Cause in your rush to comment and pass ’em along…you fail to catch the oddly construed references and wording that have specific targets as opposed to general targets.

In the rush to comment on and pass along The Bird Feeder and Inner Neighborhood Services you promote an articles that subtley targets one illegal immigration group including negative stereotypes for that group as opposed to illegal immigrants in general and general negative observations.

The result is is that our enemies are able to say: “Look at them. They claim not to be red-neck racists and just want to stop illegal immigrants from all origins – yet they fell for it! They are closeted racists!”

Whoever the authors were of those two articles – they were very shrewd and cold calculating son of a bitches. Sad part is – it’s working.

In regards to From a Teacher in LA, it is more subtle – but still it gets results.

The latest of course, AirTrans 297, is focused on “Islam”, “Muslims”, etc…and of course was trying to whip up opposition to kreeping Sharia law, failure to assimulate, lack of respect for our Constitution not on the basis of cold hard facts and proven or observed events…

…but rather by whipping up emotional hate response and go-gettism by way of pushing the following buttons:

– The big Lock ‘n Load ‘Em I got your six Texan.
– The Arab in traditional dress (knowing most Americans can’t tell a traditional dressed Arab from an Afghan, a Persian, a Hindu, a Sikh, a Palestinian Arab, etc.)

– Vigilante justice (We all know why we like Charles Bronson and the Boondock Saints.)

– The absolutely incompetent feds who expect us to be suicidal.

The response was so weird over at Alipac – that after spending a week proving how well the search engine worked using time stamps and search strings in posts to negate the “couldn’t find it with search” excuse – Alipac suddenly declared the search function to not be working and a week later I was banned after I refused to back down after a repost of something had occurred for the umpteenth for something that was already right there on the very front page of the General Forum.

The worst part of all – is that by passing such material around – your are participating in spam which drives IT support folks like myself.

But here is what concerns me most:

I have worked in serveral government environments myself. Most employees at city, county, state and federal levels including the civilian corp in the DOD are die hard shrewd calculating hardcore left wing radicals who will stop at nothing to smear us using our concerns against us. For 10 clueless lefties you meet – there is 1 who plays a chess game that would make Karpov and Kasparov use their alotted time on the clock.

I suspect some of this shit that is tossed at us like these stories come from them – NSA included. Think disinformation campaign designed to make us look non-credible.

Of course, our private enemies, those who push amnesty, open borders, non-assimilation, sex-ed, (insert your pet peeve here), are likely sources as well – who of course when it works say to their allies:

“See! I told you so…give ’em a story they really like and we can also give them the rope they’ll hang themselves with!”

I’ll say it again folks…careful. Hit the skeptic button – learn to read – identity overt and covert goals of the story or article you are reading…those are skills that come in handy.

Good Luck!

=8-)

mrrabbit on December 6, 2009 at 6:27 pm

jharp, as I have mentioned before here I don’t know what is worse the Muslims or the politically castrated liberals. This country is so politically castrated it cant discern from good or bad. I have come to the conclusions it is the liberals. You guys are so vile you went into your own racial tantrum, “ignorant redneck teabagger bigoted white trash”. Oh how so tolerant. Please lead by example on your tolerance.
When will liberals go after others in “their hatred of someone who happens to believe in a different God”? And I am talking about Muslims. Oh yeah, you guys won’t be critical of Muslims because you just might have a fatwa thrown on you. So you cowards keep your mouth shut. Whatever happened to liberals wanting to fight against the Taliban who allow women to be forced to wear burquas and not get educated? Was the fight too much and now you want to surrender? Your cowardice only leads others to be victimized by those religious oppressors. Man this must keep you up at night. When your convictions are called into action, you guys run like roaches seeing the light.

CaliforniaScreaming on December 6, 2009 at 6:38 pm

    CaliforniaScreaming:

    “I have come to the conclusions it is the liberals. You guys are so vile you went into your own racial tantrum, “ignorant redneck teabagger bigoted white trash”. Oh how so tolerant. Please lead by example on your tolerance.”

    We are tolerant of each others differences, but no one should be tolerant of outright stupidity, a category you must get tired of falling into. How does it feel to be the laughing stock of the country? Seriously, its downright scary just how ignorant you people are. STFU.

    LOLatConservatives on December 6, 2009 at 6:56 pm

Terrorists don’t care if you are a liberal or a conservative. Are people that foolish now? That they think if they are liberal and a terrorist hijacks a plane to fly it into another building they will swerve then nose dive the plan into the sea because said building is full of liberals?

Good story, it’s really hard to get any kind of decent news out there.

whitsesd on December 6, 2009 at 6:42 pm

There were probably well over 100 pasengers on the flight. They must be terrorists too since they haven’t said a word. This one says he lied.

http://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta/faa-to-investigate-cell-202143.html?cxntlid=daylf_artr

An AirTran spokesman said a man traveling with a group Tuesday afternoon refused to turn his cell phone off before takeoff. But the woman sitting behind the man said it wasn’t a phone at all, and feels the entire incident was the result of poor communication.

“He was not talking on a cell phone, it was a camera,” said Nancy Deveikis of Marietta. “He was looking at pictures.”

snip

When the man did not respond to the flight attendant, she took the camera from him, Deveikis said. Deveikis, who presented ajc.com with her boarding pass for the flight, said she watched the exchange from directly behind the man in seat 28A and the female flight attendant.

She showed her boarding pass while Petunia wouldn’t even comment:

In its continued investigation into the incident, the AJC made several attempts to speak to Petruna about the incident. He has declined throughout the week to respond to repeated e-mail and phone attempts by the AJC to talk to him. That last request was made Saturday.

But if Glenn Beck reported it then it must be true, right?

Mike S on December 6, 2009 at 7:03 pm

    “In its continued investigation into the incident, the AJC made several attempts to speak to Petruna about the incident. He has declined throughout the week to respond to repeated e-mail and phone attempts by the AJC to talk to him. That last request was made Saturday.”

    I am hereafter referring to him as ‘The Suddenly Unavailable Tedd Petruna’.

    Richardo on December 6, 2009 at 7:06 pm

      I wouldn’t talk to AJC either.

      lexi on December 6, 2009 at 8:08 pm

This incident has been investigated by Doug Hackmann of Canada Free Press. Hackman interviewed seven witnesses inlcuding passengers and two law enforcement officers who had interviewed passengers post event.

Petruna’s verson is completely correct, he told the truth. I hope Sherican remains comfortable with his head buried in the sand, because he has left the thinking portion of his anatomy exposed.

David Gee on December 6, 2009 at 7:08 pm

    Be careful with Doug Hackman and others from Canada Free Press…

    For example…with the two version eligibility certification consipiracy story regarding the Democratic Party and Obama…those folks claimed to have researched the whole thing in great detail…discussed interviews with scared reporters/anchors…etc….that they had followed professional investigation standards to the hilt…

    …and it turned out that a FreeRepublic poster had already posted it all 3 months previous – including the referenced documents showing two different certifications.

    Like I said folks…careful…

    =8-)

    mrrabbit on December 6, 2009 at 9:35 pm

The Camera incident related by the witness is separate from the (two) cellphone talkers scattered through the plane. Thus creating three incidents of none compliance with flight staff instructions at the same time.

David Gee on December 6, 2009 at 7:14 pm

    Makes sense that each witness would have a different version of the story since with 11 different diversions they’re bound to pay more attention to what’s happening next to them than at the other end of the plane.
    A dry run to see if they could simply draw attention away from the real culprits, maybey in a real future situation? There are many possibilities here. I’m sure they were testing the waters.

    theShadow on December 6, 2009 at 8:41 pm

Another Witness ??????

FROM MDJ ONLINE

[The e-mail writer told me today AirTran is lying and he has his boarding pass, but I’m beyond this by now, because I discovered another highly credible eyewitness to the incident was none other than Cobb businessman and security expert Brent C. Brown, CEO of Chesley-Brown International.

Brown, who is also chairman of the Marietta History Museum, confirmed late Saturday that he was on Flight 297 and that there was chaos on the plane. He believes the entire incident was mishandled by AirTran officials, though has kind words for the pilot, who he said, “was dead right” in his decision-making, and is to be commended for turning the plane around.

Seated in the third row in business class, he said it was obvious the suspicious men were interacting with each other and refusing to sit down, grounds for the pilot’s decision.

Once back at the gate, however, Brown says there were no law enforcement officials visible (this contradicts the Texan’s e-mail) and airline officials weren’t talking to the passengers, who were openly upset and refusing to fly.

“The tension on board was incredible,” Brown said. The men who came back on board after questioning were belligerent and smirking, and the people who got off, he confirmed, were traumatized.

So the story evolves. And in this age of jihadi Army officers and internet hoaxes, us regular folk continue to seek the truth.

Lbarmstrong3378@comcast.ne ]

end

Full text below

http://www.mdjonline.com/pages/full_story/push?article-Laura+Armstrong-+The+curious++case+of++Air+Tran+flight+297%20&id=5017926-Laura+Armstrong-+The+curious++case+of++Air+Tran+flight+297&instance=lead_story_left_column

Billy on December 6, 2009 at 7:37 pm

Ad hominem attacks and outright racism is the new cool, isn’t it? I mean, as seen in other articles on this website, if someone attacks Jews or Christians then the world is coming to an end. But if a Muslim is involved then it’s OBVIOUSLY the “Muslim terrorists” fault. It doesn’t matter if the person is a born and raised American, does it?

Would you teach your children to avoid someone based on religion, skin color, sexuality, or whatever you arbitrarily deem undesirable? My, how we’ve changed since 1950s.

Rational Speaker on December 6, 2009 at 8:32 pm

    From “The Obama New World Order Dictionary & Encyclopedia of Revisionist History” once again we are reminded that iSlam is a race, not a cult.
    Sorry but NO, it doesn’t matter if you’re born American,
    if you’re a muslim and a terrorist, than you’re a muslim terrorist, period.
    Oh, and last time I looked in Websters, “muslim” isn’t a nationality either.

    theShadow on December 6, 2009 at 9:25 pm

PREACH HATE

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MAKE MONEY

FUKAYOU on December 6, 2009 at 8:42 pm

    Were you actually trying to post something, or is it a medication issue? Do we need to contact your caregiver?

    Worry01 on December 7, 2009 at 1:57 am

New Witness, appears to be a little more credible.

From the Marietta Daily Journal

Quote

The e-mail writer told me today AirTran is lying and he has his boarding pass, but I’m beyond this by now, because I discovered another highly credible eyewitness to the incident was none other than Cobb businessman and security expert Brent C. Brown, CEO of Chesley-Brown International.

Brown, who is also chairman of the Marietta History Museum, confirmed late Saturday that he was on Flight 297 and that there was chaos on the plane. He believes the entire incident was mishandled by AirTran officials, though has kind words for the pilot, who he said, “was dead right” in his decision-making, and is to be commended for turning the plane around.

Seated in the third row in business class, he said it was obvious the suspicious men were interacting with each other and refusing to sit down, grounds for the pilot’s decision.

Once back at the gate, however, Brown says there were no law enforcement officials visible (this contradicts the Texan’s e-mail) and airline officials weren’t talking to the passengers, who were openly upset and refusing to fly.

“The tension on board was incredible,” Brown said. The men who came back on board after questioning were belligerent and smirking, and the people who got off, he confirmed, were traumatized.

So the story evolves. And in this age of jihadi Army officers and internet hoaxes, us regular folk continue to seek the truth.

End Quote

Billy on December 6, 2009 at 8:54 pm

    Billy,

    Quoting a right wing columnist is as credible as quoting a right wing radio entertainer.

    This may be the funniest of her “articles.” Notice the smarmy music.

    A loving tribute to George and Laura Bush and their love – … not to be forgotten – article in Marietta Daily Journal by Laura Armstrong 12.7.08 …

    http://nfrwwinningwebs.org/BushTribute09.htm

    Mike S on December 6, 2009 at 9:23 pm

      Mike

      I’m trying to not let someone’s political affilition stand in the way or cloud my desire to find the truth in this story. It’s sinmply too important to dismiss even though the story is already filled with partisanship and untruths.

      The relevant fact I am poinitng out here is there is that there appears to be another witness, who at least on the surface has more credibilty than Mr. Petruna.

      The author of the article or her “agenda” don’t detract from the fact that we now have another witness (with a security background) that may be able to shine a much needed light of truth on this episode.

      I wouldn’t care if the article was written by Rush Limbaugh or harry Reid, neither were there and neithers opinions have any bearing on what I inevitably will digest to be the truth. Brent C. Brown was there and I’d like to hear what he, and the rest of the passengers have to say.

      Billy on December 6, 2009 at 9:44 pm

      So, using your logic, if a network or newspaper has a leftist columnist or two, I should disregard at as well? Sorry, I will get the information I seek without the blinkers thanks.

      Worry01 on December 7, 2009 at 2:01 am

        worry01,

        In the first place, I think you’ll find more than one or two leftists at most newspapers or networks. My point is, it doesn’t matter here. We are not asking the columnist for the facts or her opinion. We are trying to get facts from a eyewitness. Big Difference.

        Billy on December 7, 2009 at 2:39 am

You are all insane. Insane. Certifiably, undeniably insane.

Ted Atkinson on December 6, 2009 at 9:40 pm

Billy, thanks for posting that article.

It seems, to the Muslim and liberal chagrin of the trolls on this site, that Debbie Schlussel was right once again and WAY ahead of the curve.

Tedd Petruna’s account has been substantiated by two very credible witnesses.

Air Tran keeps contradicting itself and coming up with new stories, showing that they are deceitful and covering up something for Muslims.

To me, it was odd that all the Muslim and liberal trolls were posting in such force here over the last couple of days. They seemed extremely worried about the truth and were hell-bent on covering it up for some reason. Many of them are most likely terrorist sympathizers and didn’t want dry runs to be publicized. If they can get Americans to be too scared to come forward about dry runs, then they can help Muslims in their jihad.

But the truth comes out and Debbie Schlussel was correct as always.

Where is “Joel Miller” and “Michael Sheridan” and all the others to comment on the Marietta Daily Journal article?

JM on December 6, 2009 at 9:44 pm

    Well, Debbie, if there are plenty of records as you say of Petruna being on the flight, you should have no problem producing them. You can get them direct from Petruna, the guy whose story you believed “100 percent,” although he won’t talk to anyone but you and the Chaplain.

    It’s a true story, of course, including the Muslim men in full attire who showed up for the dry run, and the one who called his friend in the back of the plane, while the men were watching porn they had shot the night before (because that’s what they do before jihad — Petruna’s “studied,”) and the man who shouted “You infidel dog!” while Petruna’s big Texas buddy helped him out, and then Petruna threatened the flight attendant with the line “I am going out that door with you under my arm!”

    It shouldn’t be a problem at all to prove that Petruna was on the flight, especially when he was on another flight that didn’t land on time to make this one.

    Joel Miller on December 6, 2009 at 11:01 pm

So who would ever think that a Muslim would ever attack passengers? I mean that is sooooo 9/11/2001. You must be a bigot to think that Muslims would attack any passengers in 2009 going into the next decade. I mean Obama is here. Conservatives and Republicans are out of power. We are the world. We all can get along now. Yeah Riiiight? Just ask Russia whose passengers were just murdered. And liberals still think there is no correlation between terrorism and Muslims. Just like they all jumped to the conclusion the the Ft. Hood killing was just PTSD. Yeah, PTSD???

By the way the Chechen Muslim rebels are proud of their work:

“We declare that this operation was prepared and carried out within the planned, early this year, and successfully carried out acts of sabotage on a number of strategically important objects of Rusnya, pursuant to the order of the Emir of Caucasus Emirate Dokka Umarov.”

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/283120

I wonder if there were dry runs before this heinous attack?

CaliforniaScreaming on December 6, 2009 at 9:47 pm

*You are all insane. Insane. Certifiably, undeniably insane.

Ted Atkinson on December 6, 2009 at 9:40 pm*

Sorry, Ted, it seems like YOU are the one having the insane reaction. Are you a little disturbed that a third extremely credible witness has come forward and his account of what happened is exactly the same as Tedd Petruna’s?

Care to comment on the Marietta Daily Journal article?

JM on December 6, 2009 at 9:48 pm

Hi Deb!

Wow! This is fun watching people try to change the subject, rationalize, deny etc.

We now have 3 witnesses who have agreed on some very basic things:

1. Whatever the disturbance was, it was bad enough to bring the plane back to the gate.

2. When the Muslim passengers were allowed to re-board, the plane’s crew refused to fly it.

Hey! Isn’t Ray LaHood in charge of the FAA now?

There is NO Santa Claus on December 6, 2009 at 10:01 pm

Thanks for clinging desperately to this story Debbie. Even the biggest moron can see just what a load of crap it is. And by sticking with this story, more people will realize how full of crap you are as well.

Alcapwned on December 6, 2009 at 10:05 pm

    You do like using the word “crap” alot. Are you telling us that you need to change your diaper in a not too subtle way?

    Worry01 on December 7, 2009 at 1:49 am

An event happened that was significant enough to cause a passenger jet to return to the gate after taxing away from the terminal. The crew and some passengers disembarked from the plane. The plane departed more than two hours late.

The cause and details are yet to be determined but this was no minor incident.

Stay tuned.

Sam Sewell on December 6, 2009 at 10:17 pm

You right wing-nuts are a hoot! Your idiocy is only eclipsed in it’s awesomeness by your willingness to display it so publicly!

Schlussel is a an Ann Coulter wannabe. As if that was something to aspire to anyway!

Vinnie From Indy on December 6, 2009 at 10:25 pm

    You said it my friend!
    Fuckthese crazy old people!
    Political party this, political party that!!
    I’m a die hard swing voter. I vote on the issues not on a political party. You cant call me left or right wing. What kind of insult is that anyway?
    Blah!

    BobVilla on December 7, 2009 at 12:05 am

Excerpt from the Murietta article:

[Put on your fine tooth and comb reading eyes folks…]

[Begin Excerpt]

The e-mail writer told me today AirTran is lying and he has his boarding pass, but I’m beyond this by now, because I discovered another highly credible eyewitness to the incident was none other than Cobb businessman and security expert Brent C. Brown, CEO of Chesley-Brown International.

Brown, who is also chairman of the Marietta History Museum, confirmed late Saturday that he was on Flight 297 and that there was chaos on the plane. He believes the entire incident was mishandled by AirTran officials, though has kind words for the pilot, who he said, “was dead right” in his decision-making, and is to be commended for turning the plane around.

Seated in the third row in business class, he said it was obvious the suspicious men were interacting with each other and refusing to sit down, grounds for the pilot’s decision.

Once back at the gate, however, Brown says there were no law enforcement officials visible (this contradicts the Texan’s e-mail) and airline officials weren’t talking to the passengers, who were openly upset and refusing to fly.

“The tension on board was incredible,” Brown said. The men who came back on board after questioning were belligerent and smirking, and the people who got off, he confirmed, were traumatized.

So the story evolves. And in this age of jihadi Army officers and internet hoaxes, us regular folk continue to seek the truth.

Lbarmstrong3378@comcast.ne

[End Excerpt]

1. We already know that with Petrunas (a non-passenger) that we have to write off Petrunas account as he added uncessary color and exaggeration to an already bad situation – might explain why AirTrans is pissed.

2. Brown believes AirTrans mishandled the incident – confirming what the lady with the boarding pass indicated regarding a passenger with a video phone and miscommunication.

3. Brown confirms that the Captain indeed had cause for returning to the gate.

4. Brown does not use the Arabic or Muslim identifier – just troublemakers in plural – so there were more individuals beyond the one identified by the lady earlier – and there was collusion of some kind.

5. Some passengers, not all, but some had good enough reason to depart – and the rest showed signs of witnessing something unpleasant.

6. No law enforcement action occurred – however there is nothing to say that an Air Marshall wasn’t present or joined the passengers along with the troublemakers for the actual departure.

While the author does try to spin and agendize her article – at least she in honest and admits “The story evolves…”

I found myself asking two questions – and a really good intelligent would do themselves a very good favor if they can nail these two down:

1. When the plane took off again – was the one stewardess in question still onboard with the original crew – or did she stay behind? If she was left behind, why?

2. Did anyone new besides the original passengers and troublemakers come on board for the final take off? If so, who and why?

3. What are the details on the two troublesome passengers who were removed?

Answer those – or experience avoidance on those questions – then we can start putting on the tinfoil.

=8-)

mrrabbit on December 6, 2009 at 11:04 pm

Why hasn’t the 3rd witness posted this account on his own website? http://www.chesleybrown.com
Why is Mr. Brown’s account just like Mr. Petruna’s, in that it is only a statement with no questions or interactions with anyone, such as yourself, Debbie?

D. Showalter on December 6, 2009 at 11:26 pm

    D. Showalter,

    It’s a business website, not a forum or a blog. I would think it would be inappropriate for him to use that as an outlet for this incident. I certainly wouldn’t. I would guess that now that he has had contact with the media, the question and answer phase, at least with him will begin.

    Billy on December 6, 2009 at 11:46 pm

      D. Showalter,

      There actually is a venue for incident repoting on that site,(e-briefs) however, the most current info is dated 11/24/09. Depending on the cycle with which they post,it may be forthcoming since it occured a few short days before the last post.

      Billy on December 7, 2009 at 12:18 am

just because you have a boarding pass does not mean that you where on the flight. you can print a copy of the boarding pass at home, when it comes time to board the ticket is scanned and the gate agents never keep it.

John on December 6, 2009 at 11:40 pm

Anybody who flies regularly for business knows that John’s right. Without the airline’s copy of the manifest there’s no way to prove whether or not Petruna was on the flight. According to AirTran Petruna missed his initial departing flight and got booked on a new connecting flight, if he missed his departing flight by only a short period of time (a couple of minutes, maybe more) he could have gotten his boarding passes (both initial and connecting) and then tried to hoof it to the flight, only to come up just short. He could also have printed out his boarding pass before he headed to the airport.

Long story short, it’s definitely possible for him to have more than one boarding pass in his possession, as such the only way to prove whether or not he was on the plane is for AirTran to supply their manifest.

Dez on December 7, 2009 at 12:11 am

Looks like more BS from an airline that brought you Flight 592.
Still buried affter all these years.

Check it out

axel mehrle on December 7, 2009 at 12:15 am

If the dirty moslems were indeed testing airline security (again), would it surprise anyone if Omoslem’s FBI told the airline “Don’t talk about this incident, for security reasons?”

AG Holder is IMPORTING moslem terrorists to NYC, for pete’s sake. Omoslem sent those uhigurs from Gitmo to permanent vacation in Bermuda. They’re literally partying on the beach as I type this.

Wake up, folks — the government, led by our Moslem in Chief, is ON THE SIDE OF THE MOSLEMS. And you, American citizens, are the ENEMY.

Barry Soetoro on December 7, 2009 at 12:15 am

For what it’s worth, I don’t think there’s any way for AirTran to prove that they’ve supplied an un-doctored manifest either. The printed version of the crew manifest isn’t embossed or anything, it’s just printed on a piece of normal paper. There’s no way for them to prove that the copy their supplying hasn’t been fiddled with. Basically the folks on either side of this story aren’t going to be able to be convinced no matter what sort of evidence is provided (short of timestamped security camera evidence that shows Petruna getting on the plane or getting off the later flight… and even then there will be folks who would think the timestamp is a forgery).

Dez on December 7, 2009 at 12:16 am

    Security camera video perhaps?

    Billy on December 7, 2009 at 12:21 am

You guys ARE insane. You keep coming up with “witnesses”, right wing loonies that have NO freaking credibility, yet there’s this

“The e-mail writer told me today AirTran is lying and he has his boarding pass, but I’m beyond this by now, because I discovered another highly credible eyewitness to the incident was none other than Cobb businessman and security expert Brent C. Brown, CEO of Chesley-Brown International.” Wow how convenient, being beyond it? really? Why don’t you just get the freaking boarding pass from ole Ted who also has conveniently also become incommunicado.

Seriously WHAT A BUNCH OF IGNORANT people.

BackinTexas on December 7, 2009 at 12:21 am

    BackinTaexas,

    I don’t know how they do it backintexas, but trying to get straight answers, preferrably the truth isn’t an excercise in ignorance.

    Billy on December 7, 2009 at 12:26 am

      The truth? You couldn’t see the truth if it hit you between the eyes.

      BackinTexas on December 7, 2009 at 12:28 am

        You clearly haven’t been reading my posts.

        Billy on December 7, 2009 at 12:36 am

Another observation. Brent Brown’s security company Chesley Brown has a relationship and provides services for The Department of Homeland Security. He is also a trained observor. If he were to lie or even embelish any part of this story he would, at a minimum, jeopordize his contract with them. Mr. Brown just may be the rosetta stone witness needed to decode this mess.

Billy on December 7, 2009 at 12:35 am

Wow, this article really brings out the libs, much like shit attracts flies. An apt comparison, I might add.

1. AirTran is probably trying to protect themselves from a lawsuit similar to the “Flying Imams” case.

2. Muslims are not a race; they are adherents to a religion. As such, it is logically impossible to be “racist” towards them. Stop with the “racism” crap when race is not being spoken about.

3. Why is it so hard to believe that Muslims might want to try and take out mass transit? Well, I guess they haven’t done so, if you don’t count New York, DC, ummm London, Madrid…and um Russia…I’m probably missing other “successful operations” from the Religion of Peace. Yep, we’re all just “crazy”!

Libs are people so open-minded their brains have completely fallen out. Too bad the rest of us have to put up with them.

Matt on December 7, 2009 at 12:49 am

It is because I’ve read each and every post that makes say what I say. But look, I have no ill will for anyone, honestly, I just cannot understand why people will JUMP to conclusions based on their biases and not put any real common sense and intellect before going on spouting all kinds of conspiracy theories. But hey let’s see where this ends up.

BackinTexas on December 7, 2009 at 12:51 am

    I haven’t jumped to any conclusions other than SOMETHING happened. I’ve been consistent in that throughout the last several days this has been an issue. Because Mr. Petruna tainted the incident with untruths, for reasons we do not yet know, he has made finding the truth that much more difficult. I’ve said that the truth is somewhere in the middle. I’m beginning to think it may be greater than that but we have a long way to go before we get there. Never the less, we shouldn’t let our political divisions or aliances deter us from
    rooting out what could very well be substantial threats to our safety. Another attack is not an option, we’ve lost too many innocent mothers, fathers, sons, daughters and friends already.

    Billy on December 7, 2009 at 1:06 am

Matt?… Drudge?, hell I knew you’d be around here.

BackinTexas on December 7, 2009 at 12:53 am

Wow. Just wow. For those of you who were tripping over each other to boast the “new” source, have you even read the column??

Brown’s account only states there was a disturbance and the plane went back. That’s it! Nothing on the Muslims. Nothing on the porn videos. And nothing on the shouts of “infidel dog.”

Just seems to me he would corroborate the most inflammatory parts of the “real story.” BUt you get zip, nada, nothing. And the passenger who has already shown a boarding pass to AJC gets scrutiny. Tedd goes into hiding and has been called out as a liar. I would want to clear my name immediately. Hmm, how about he shows HIS boarding pass? [Tedd? crickets chirping]

I say just readjust your tinfoil hats and get back to your maddening conspiracy ideas. It’s funny that you think liberals want to avoid the truth to be more “politically correct” [a rehashed 90s era memo] but you choose to ignore FACTS when they slap you in the face. Worrisome for the next generation in my country.

Henry on December 7, 2009 at 1:18 am

    Henry,

    We have a pretty good idea the porn video thing was a lie, Petruna basically admitted that, and infidel dog and a variety of othe things. So why would Mr. Brown corroborate that.

    Now, what he DID say was that passengers were traumatized. When was the last time you were traumatized because someone wouldn’t hang up a phone.

    Perhaps it is you that needs to re-read the column.

    Billy on December 7, 2009 at 1:37 am

Petruna needs to produce his flight ticket and any evidence that he paid for that specific flight. That would be a good start in proving that he was on that flight.

The airline needs to provide the flight passenger manifest with first names of all the passengers and crew blacked out.
This would go a long way to showing if Petruna was on the flight or not as well as 11 men with Arab-sounding names.

A lot of this story doesn’t sound right, but who knows, a lot of it could be true, be just embellished.

Should be an interesting continuing story, but I wouldn’t play any bets on anyone right now.

Max Friedman on December 7, 2009 at 1:28 am

Does Patruna have his ticket and/or boarding pass?

Miranda Rose Smith on December 7, 2009 at 1:44 am

Goodness, goodness. The reply to my post was to admit Petruna lied about specific points, but then somehow because the passengers were “traumatized” it should be ME who goes back to check facts?

Billy, that’s a a big task. How can you possibly believe any of Petruna’s account? He refuses to comment and has gone into hiding. Like I already stated…If it was me they were going after, I would IMMEDIATELY post my boarding pass. [I think he still has a Facebook account]

And for all of you who want to scour a manifest for “Arab-sounding” names. Are you kidding me?? How ridiculous. But you wouldn’t know the difference between Arab, Persian or Portuguese–so why would it matter? And what about scary recently converted Muslims?? And what if they had American-sounding names? Oh, noooo! [Hilarious]

Before you tinfoil-hat wearing loons start making demands of the airliner, why don’t we start with the SIMPLEST fact-checking: Hey, Tedd, show us your boarding pass!

Henry on December 7, 2009 at 1:49 am

    I don’t believe him. i think (know) he’s a liar. He himself confirmed that. I DO THINK he was at the gate and witnessed something. I just think he wrote himself into the hero script and I’m sorry, I can’t tell you why.

    I’ve said all along I thought something happened. Planes don’t return to the gates because they forgot the Columbian Coffee. Add traumatized passengers, a new (credible) witness stating that the people involved were beligerent and you have something more than what airtran is calling a misunderstanding over a phone.

    Billy on December 7, 2009 at 2:07 am

To answer your question, Debbie, I believe there are at least two reasons AirTran could be lying. One, it’s embarrassing to AirTran to have a turnback to the blocks because of a security incident, and then to have the crew replaced. That would appear to be the wrong move in the public’s eye (and it would be the wrong move).

Two, the TSA/Homeland Security doesn’t want the public to panic. They will quietly conduct their own investigation, and may or may not implement changes to their procedures as a result. Having the public scrutinize their actions in handling this matter, or AirTran’s manner of reaction is just not productive, from a security perspective, as they see it.

Additionally, from the FAA’s point of view, they represent the regulatory agency of the airlines, but they are also the airlines’ public relations agent. There is nothing good that can come out of the publicity surrounding this, in their view, either. If the truth is as your witnesses say, then the resulting firestorm would be bad for business — and not just AirTran’s.

You can bet this incident will be thoroughly investigated by the TSA/Homeland Security — but the public won’t be privy to the results. The results will be shared on a ‘need to know’ basis, the public be damned, FOIA be damned.

—–

If I were to ask questions, one would be: was the first crew turning, or due to turn? Meaning, was this their first flight of the duty period, or was there to be another leg after this one? If not, then the airline may have a duty time limititation that AirTran might use as their excuse/reason for replacing the crew — or if the crew was due to turn at the next location, and a replacement crew wasn’t available there — they might have replaced the crew when they saw that their duty time would exceed the FAR’s and a crew was available.

If the crew wasn’t turning or due to turn, then AirTran has some explaining to do regarding the crew replacement.

Another question: Were any of the pilots emotionally attached to any of the flight attendants — meaning married, or related? It’s a security concern — remember the cockpit door is almost impenetrable.

—-

One other observation — if there was an air marshall on board, it’s highly unlikely they would have stepped forward to intervene in this case. The air marshall(s) would have been keen to what was happening, but they are trained NOT to identify themselves unless it’s absolutely necessary — in case the plotters are creating a distraction so they can identify who needs to be neutralized first when the s*** really hits the fan.

WOXOF on December 7, 2009 at 2:09 am

It’s almost surreal that as Americans we are sitting here, on December 7th, the anniversary of the sneak attack on Pearl Harbor at odds as to whether or not we should be vigilant. Thousands sent to watery graves in that attack slipped from our memory enough to allow us the complacency to send thousands more to their deaths in a firey inferno on September 11th. Pray to God we never again become that indifferent to the threats we face.

Billy on December 7, 2009 at 2:32 am

Good post WOXOF…

mrrabbit on December 7, 2009 at 2:32 am

BIlly, I had forgotten today was the 7th. Your reminder was poignant.

But don’t conflate facts with emotions of that day. I am not advocating an attitude of not being ‘vigilant’ against threats to our nation. Just the opposite, in fact. I respect the men and women who can put together a large scale investigation and arrest those who seek to harm us. Note the Zazi case, as one example.

Here’s the difference, sir. This entire story STARTS with a racist, xenophobic, error-riddled first person account. Before that there is nothing to suggest this was a dry run of any sorts. Why were you so caught up in this so so quickly? Certainly not just for Schlussel’s benefit [and believe me, she is the real profiteer here. And a liar]. Do you want to be attached to this racist? Do you want your own credibility enmeshed with his?

Tedd Petruna is a coward. A racist coward, at that. [I’m not afraid of political correctness, so I lob that word at him with full effect] He made up facts to support his concocted story that brown Muslims are out there to kill white Americans–in “full attire,” no less! The threat is real, but let us not cry wolf every time someone forwards you an email fulfilling an already implanted idea about exactly who in this world is evil and good.

Henry on December 7, 2009 at 2:46 am

    I waded into this story slowly. i am well aware of the rampant bigotry and sterotyping on this site and hundreds of others. The comment section is a testament to how divided we are, unfortunately.

    Because Petruna is a liar, and, obviously let his bigotry get the best of him, I questioned this story from the start. However, one can’t discount, ignore, or trivialize any alleged incident on an airplane in a post 9/11 world. It’s just that simple. The trick is to peel away the actions or comments of those that are obviously agenda driven and find the truth. That can be difficult, especially when the officials that should be charged with easing our concerns compound them with their cryptic, evasive responses.

    So, I can’t not be concerned with this incident just because it came to light through the actions of a bigot or a liar. If Charles Manson were to tell me my house was on fire, and it was, would I let it burn because a lying racists murdering scumbag told me about it?

    We know Petruna lied. We know he’s a bigot. We also know he was witness to something. What we have to do is find the honest individuals who can prove they have first hand knowlege to help sort this out. I think we’re on the cusp of that happening.

    It serves no purpose for the people on this thread or the hundreds of other sites that are debating this to hurl insults at one another. Sadly, that is what our politcal dialogue has become. i don’t know the answer to that but I do know that warrants it’s own thread.

    For now, the task at hand is to get to the bottom of what may be something, maybe not, but with each passing day now it seems the former is the more likely.

    Billy on December 7, 2009 at 3:21 am

      Billy: It’s clear you have received your talking points.

      I’d rather have insults hurled at me than be liquidated by a Muslim because I was too much of a coward to face the truth.

      Ooohh, insults are bad.

      lexi on December 7, 2009 at 9:32 am

        lexi

        Thank you, what a classy way to try and insult someone. However, you shouldn’t underestimate the conviction of those you don’t know. I’m just as determined to do what I can to avert another attck as you or anyone else. We needn’t lose our civility in that pursuit.

        Billy on December 7, 2009 at 9:47 am

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