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December 19, 2013, - 12:28 pm

In Defense of Phil Robertson, “Duck Dynasty” Patriarch: Cable Didn’t Suspend Anti-Gay Muslims

By Debbie Schlussel

This past fall, while I was sitting for lunch at my friends’ Sukkah during the Jewish holiday of Sukkot, I told my friends about my admiration for the Robertson family of the A&E reality show, “Duck Dynasty.” While we live in a Kardashian-encrusted, TMZ-infected world the Robertsons are a breath of fresh air. They’ve done more to promote capitalism, moral values, and patriotism than anyone in American society today because their show is the most popular in cable history. I had planned to make them the DebbieSchlussel.com People of the Year. Now, I’m waiting to see whether the rest of the family stands up for Phil Robertson. A&E’s suspension of Robertson over his remarks in GQ about his moral and religious beliefs regarding homosexuality is yet another episode of cable TV’s tolerance for “anything goes except Christian moral values” and TV hypocrisy as networks embrace extremist Muslims who believe in executing gays.

While I’ve never seen a full episode of “Duck Dynasty” (mine is a cable-free household), I’ve seen clips of it, and I love the Robertson clan. They say prayers, work hard, and took duck hunting paraphernalia to a new level. Even though in my own religion we do not hunt, I think it’s great that the Robertsons found an element of duck hunting and built an empire on it, exuding America’s great entrepreneurial spirit. Because of that, they are living the American dream. Yes, I know that many of them have college degrees–at least one has a masters degree–and they didn’t always have beards and wear camo (a past pic shows the Robertson men clean-shaven and wearing Ralph Lauren Polo shirts in a scene that looks like it could have been a clothing ad). But that’s “reality TV.” It’s not real. It’s manufactured.

Also not real is the manufactured “moral outrage” over Robertson’s comments about his own personal moral and religious beliefs–beliefs that are the views of many religious Christians and Jews throughout America and the world. And, despite the newest Pope’s gay-friendly comments, they are also the views of the Catholic Church, the Jewish Torah, and, yes, the koran (but we can’t mention the koran or Muslims because they were rewarded with “special” status after mass-murdering 3,000 Americans). All of these religions believe that homosexuality is a sin.

I personally am a libertarian on this issue: whom you sleep with behind closed doors is your business. I just don’t think you should get special rights, and I don’t want it in my face (that applies to both gay AND straight public displays of affection). I have gay friends, clients, colleagues and so on. But I also believe, as my Jewish religion does, that it is a sin. One of the basic 613 Jewish Commandments (no, there aren’t just ten) prohibits homosexuality.

Yes, Robertson spoke out against homosexuality, but that’s his personal and religious moral belief. It is not as if he is calling for the death penalty for gays, which is law in virtually every Muslim country around the world–including several Muslim countries gushingly portrayed on A&E and on its parent company, ABC (which owns half of A&E). And, by the way, contrary to what’s been reported, he didn’t compare homosexuality to bestiality. He said that accepting that behavior results in a slippery slope of accepting other behavior, such as adultery, polygamy, bestiality, etc. Here’s the exact quote:

Start with homosexual behavior and just morph out from there. Bestiality, sleeping around with this woman and that woman and that woman and those men. . . . Don’t be deceived. Neither the adulterers, the idolaters, the male prostitutes, the homosexual offenders, the greedy, the drunkards, the slanderers, the swindlers — they won’t inherit the kingdom of God. Don’t deceive yourself. It’s not right.

I note that the many gay activists who called for Robertson to be fired from the show were strangely silent when A&E competitor TLC ran the low-rated propaganda reality show, “All-American Muslim,” whose participants openly said in interviews that they admired Ayatollah Khomeini and began wearing hijabs when he took power in Iran (and held Americans hostage for 444 days). Khomeini enacted strict laws against homosexuality, including the death penalty, and he also said that parents should marry off their young girls to have sex with adult men “before their first blood” (their first periods). The “All-American” Muslims and their imams openly embrace the death penalty for gays and want that to be law here, along with the rest of sharia. But there was never any outrage over that because, hey, they’re Muslims, and they get special treatment. Gays were strangely silent. And I have no doubt that had “All-American Muslim” run on A&E, the result would have been the same. You have the same mainstream media liberal elite running all these cable networks infested with reality shows.

Phil Robertson’s comments about gays are not the reason gays and A&E are “outraged”–outraged! His purported comparison of homosexuality to bestiality and adultery isn’t his crime here. Being a devout–and successful and popular–Christian is.

The second sentence paraphrases a passage in Corinthians. When producers began making this show, they knew the Robertsons were (and remain) devout Christians who believe in the Bible. Did they think the Robertsons would endorse homosexuality? Come on. They knew these guys were against it.

Now let’s see if his family demonstrates solidarity with Phil Robertson and refuses to continue cable’s most popular show without him. If that happens, I guarantee you that A&E will bring Phil Robertson back mighty quickly.

For now, all of the show’s latest season episodes are in the can. And isn’t it interesting that A&E isn’t editing Phil out of those episodes? Clearly, A&E isn’t as outraged as it is ratings and money hungry.

Tags: A&E, Duck Dynasty, Phil Robertson, Phil Robertson gays

58 Responses

Great column, Debbie, and this quote in particular.

“Being a devout–and successful and popular–Christian is.”

Satan continues to draw the line in the sand, using The Government Hollywood Media Complex to further divide the American people.

Get ready, people, it’s coming, and it’s not pretty.

Alfredo from Puerto Rico on December 19, 2013 at 12:39 pm

I’ve done this before–watch a show on A&E and maybe one on ABC. Keep track of all the ads. Then contact each network and ALL the advertisers and tell them what you think. That’ll get their attention believe me.

Tommy Thomas on December 19, 2013 at 12:46 pm

The pushback is on, and the left may not fare well on this one. But make no mistake, Satan is dancing in the hysterically laughing rage that precedes his eternal imprisonment, his “death,” since Satan the spirit being cannot really be killed. But his death as far as his influence will be real, and he will feel it forever.

But The United States is facing misery, sadness and woe.

Alfredo from Puerto Rico on December 19, 2013 at 12:57 pm

in fact Jewish teachings based on Torah puts homosexuality and sodomy on the same level as bestiality.

Moishe on December 19, 2013 at 1:11 pm

Yes Moishe, and if all animals were gay, there would be no animals.

But the left’s response to that would be that Darwinism would allow gay male fish, birds and bulls to become female and reproduce, and point to certain creatures in the animal kingdom where that sort of adaptation seems to exist.

You can’t confuse the issue with the truth, even if it came straight from God. Consider if during the next American presidential election, Jesus were running on the Republican ticket with Moses as his running mate, and Satan were running on the Democrat ticket with Hitler as his running mate.

The Left Wing Peanut Allergy Moms/Muslim Defense League/Intellectual elite which inhabits the Northeast, the Northwest, this web site and seeks to assess even Debbie’s breathing patterns, . . .

would vote Democrat.

Alfredo from Puerto Rico on December 19, 2013 at 1:24 pm

The butt pirate mafia strikes again attacking Christian values.

Habib Akbarovich on December 19, 2013 at 1:42 pm

People wonder why the Russians reject Western values?

We can see there is nothing enlightened or tolerant about the West in view of its open and unabashed embrace of unquestioning secularism, moral relativism and the accompanying assault on traditional religion and its values.

People who are conservative and also religious deserve our society’s respect – not its contempt. If we want others to admire the West, we need to stop undermining the Judeo-Christian basis of our culture. Its really that simple.

And the “Duck Dynasty” patriarch did nothing more than voice the beliefs of millions of people. Unfortunately, our elites appear to have contempt for those people and their beliefs.

New Mexico just ruled gay marriage is legal! As Debbie can tell you, you don’t to be a weatherman to know which way the wind is blowing. No good will come of it. The very fact A&E thinks Robertson is politically incorrect tells us all we need to know about the present state of American culture.

To get back to what I wrote the outset of my post, before we lecture others about their shortcomings, we would well to tend to the moral health of our own house, whose foundations are in danger of crumbling underneath it.

NormanF on December 19, 2013 at 2:00 pm

And Ice Skating Champion Brian Boitano just came out.

WOW!!! BRIAN BOITANO IS GAY!!! WHO’DA THUNK IT!!!

I’m SO disillusioned, . . .

OH, BOITANO!!!

I need to sit down, maybe take a nap.

AfPR: Check out my tweet on this:
https://twitter.com/DebbieSchlussel/status/413746262660231168
Great minds think alike. DS

Alfredo from Puerto Rico on December 19, 2013 at 2:05 pm

Hilarious, Debbie. Thank you. LOL!!!

Alfredo from Puerto Rico on December 19, 2013 at 2:36 pm

I am shocked, SHOCKED to find out that Brian Boitano is a homosexual. Next Martina Navratilova will come out of the closet. Hahaha. Must’ve been a slow news day to break the Boitano “Story.”

Victoryman on December 20, 2013 at 8:59 am

“beliefs that are the views of many religious and Christian Jews throughout America and the world”

Unless that was a reference to messianic Jews, I think that it was a typo?

The worst part about all this is that the media is now going to dig into Robertson’s background and broadcast any and every issue that they can find – any skeleton in his closet to make use of that phrase – to trash, discredit and try to destroy him. I was never a fan of that Miss California person Carrie Prejean but that is exactly the sort of thing that is headed his way.

Robertson knew that this was coming and he stood firm on his beliefs anyway. I give him all the credit in the world for that.

Gerald on December 19, 2013 at 2:23 pm

Oh look, it’s Gerald, Mr. “ImsooooSensitive to anything that looks unfavorably upon my negritude.”

But enough. I’m already getting bored. Debbie is surely right that it’s absurd and dishonest for libtard islamopanderers to object to anti-gay comments from Christians. Indeed, as the islamopanderers excuse Islam’s greater homophobia on religious grounds, there’s no reason not to exclude Christians and Jews on the same grounds. Frankly, though, this argument isn’t very compelling for those of us who despise Islam.

I don’t have cable, and I can’t endure reality shows. The TMZ guy’s comment was fair enough, as almost certainly A&E already signed off on what Robertson would be saying. For it then to have the vapors is disingenuous, and to end a man’s employment is a major overreaction as well.

HOWEVER, I think there is tremendous merit in just shutting up. I personally don’t care about the religious basis of Robertson’s dislike (and the dislike seemed visceral as well, given his comments about the relative merits of vaginas over anuses). I don’t care that Christians are expected to proselytize Jews either. It’s not my problem that someone’s religion (or, in the case of Islam, ideology) says that practitioners are to proclaim such and such.

AND THEN, when the anti-Christian libtards go on a rant, one can justly rip them a new one. Or one can just hire and fire on the basis of political party in retaliation. That should wake some people up.

skzion on December 19, 2013 at 2:55 pm

@skzion:

And if I say anything that you perceive to be anti-Semitic in the slightest you will go absolutely bonkers. So political correctness is OK for you but not for me, eh? Typical …

Gerald on December 19, 2013 at 3:05 pm

Gerald, speaking for myself, I will be extremely angry if you say anything anti-semitic on this blog. It has no place here. I was hoping you got over that a couple of years ago, but some of your recent comments have raised doubt in my mind. You seem to have taken to baiting Jewish contributors, and seeing how far you can indirectly play devil’s advocate with the implied promotion of anti=semitism.

If you want to express anti-semitic comments privately, I will loathe you, but will not assert that you be removed from this blog. But asserting them here is certainly grounds for removal.

Little Al on December 19, 2013 at 5:31 pm

If you want to express anti-semitic comments privately, I will loathe you, but will not assert that you be removed from this blog. But asserting them here is certainly grounds for removal.

If your implied anti=semitism were not so offensive, it would be amusing that you accused me of postmodernism and relativism, and yet seem to equate antisemitism, antigay views, and who knows what else. The suggestion is that everything is equal.

But there are absolutes, and some things are right and some things are wrong. Without getting into a discussion of the substance of Robertson’s views, it is clear that antisemitism is wrong. Now would be a good time for you to stop your baiting, while you are still able to contribute to this blog.

Little Al on December 19, 2013 at 5:34 pm

There are Jews who believe in Christ, but who do not necessarily “hang” with or accept the doctrine of those Christ believers who are referred to as “Messianic Jews.” There are Jews who came by their belief in Christ other than hearing the teachings of those known as Messianic Jews.

Alfredo from Puerto Rico on December 19, 2013 at 2:28 pm

@Alfredo:

Understood. Not trying to get into a theological debate (I go to the evangelical/fundamentalist blogs for that!) but it looks as if the typo has been fixed anyway.

Gerald on December 19, 2013 at 2:49 pm

And no, Alfredo, there are no believing Jews who believe in your Christ. Based on halacha, it is manifestly impossible for Jesus to have been the Messiah. Please do not sneak in such nonsense. As I said, there are times when the great merit of shutting up can usefully be mentioned.

skzion on December 19, 2013 at 3:00 pm

@skzion:

So Alfredo offends your Jewishness and you whine like a little baby. And you mock me for having the temerity to defend my own group interests? Again, typical worthless nonsense.

So, you want Christians to “shut up” and stop proselytizing Jews a whole lot don’t you? That seems to offend you far more than my “negritude” stuff. Sort of sends you right over the rails, doesn’t it?

Well Alfredo doesn’t have to be mindful of your freedoms or promote or defend your religion. Alfredo doesn’t care about your halacha and neither does this schvartze.

Gerald on December 19, 2013 at 3:19 pm

that should have been “mindful of your feelings” rather than “mindful of your freedoms”

Gerald on December 19, 2013 at 3:22 pm

I’ve commented how I believe Gerald DOES have hostility towards Jews. And again, it’s here in his post above.

Am I the only one seeing it? I can’t take him on for it as I am not Jewish but perhaps one day a Jew here will…

Skunky on December 19, 2013 at 4:19 pm

No, you’re not the only one who sees it, Skunky.

skzion on December 19, 2013 at 4:33 pm

Skunky, Dietrich Bonhoffer wasn’t Jewish either but he stood up against anti-semitism of the worst sort so of course you can take Gerald on. He does show it with every breath but he doesn’t have to care about my halacha, as long as he lets me do so without interference. There’s a Scripture that will come back to bite him and as a good Christian, if he’s read the book of Genesis, he knows what it is.

Meira on December 19, 2013 at 4:37 pm

Hmmm, perhaps because I didn’t word it properly so I see where you’re going. My bad. I didn’t mean I couldn’t take on anti-Semitism because I do like to take that on but what I meant to convey is that I don’t know much about the Jewish religion or personal experience so I am not equip to use THAT info (as a living experience and religion) as it is foreign to me and would not be to a Jew.

I just don’t have the experience or knowledge to take that on properly.

Skunky on December 19, 2013 at 4:56 pm

Skunky, I also agree with you and skzion re Gerald’s attitudes towards Jewish people. Perhaps he has forgotten that anti-semitic comments are not tolerated here, even if written in a semi-intellectual manner.

Little Al on December 19, 2013 at 5:46 pm

Gerald, the touchy person of color sez:

“So Alfredo offends your Jewishness and you whine like a little baby. And you mock me for having the temerity to defend my own group interests? Again, typical worthless nonsense.

[ . . . blah blah blah . . . ]

Well Alfredo doesn’t have to be mindful of your freedoms or promote or defend your religion. Alfredo doesn’t care about your halacha and neither does this schvartze.”

Poor Gerald is quite the moron, isn’t he? He is a facile moron, true, just like Barky.

Let’s review. This is a web site run by an Orthodox Jew. It has a large Jewish readership and a considerable proportion of the regulars are Jewish. The woman who runs it is sympathetic to Christian rights (as is virtually every regular, including me). But no one has any “right” to participate here, and that includes Gerald. Note that there is nothing “conservative” about advocating rude behavior, and rudeness refers to context. Not everything is a-ok everywhere.

Note that Gerald refers to his “group interests.” This is indeed telling. Gerald, you see, doesn’t give a damn about individual rights. He’s also happy to shut down disagreement based on accusations of raaaacism. In fact, he does so here again, with the reference to “schvartze.” For others who don’t know the word, “schvartze” is a derogatory Yiddish term for black, so our Gerald was implying that I’m raaaacist.

While few still take seriously his early claims to being a conservative, it takes chutzpah for him to burst into tears regularly here about something black related but then to object when a Jew suggests that perhaps Jewish sensitivities might just be worth considering.

Note finally that, as usual, Gerald can’t take apart any of my arguments. Upon scrutiny, his facile efforts just break down.

skzion on December 19, 2013 at 4:32 pm

P.S.: Notice that, like the libtard anti-Christians who never speak up about Islamic homohatred, Gerald never seems to speak up when non-Jewish blatant racists visit here. Hm.

skzion on December 19, 2013 at 5:14 pm

Don’t tell me to shut up. I have expressed strong beliefs on this site. So have you. I have extreme disagreement with you on this subject, but have never spoken to you as you have spoken to me, on this and other occasions. I have no problem with your strong beliefs, or the way you express them. And I have NOT taken your bait to get me in to a tiresome non-productive non-discussion with you.

There is ONE who can tell me to shut up on this site, and I’ll gladly acquiesce if she does. Other than that, . . .

why not try a little tolerance? As I have. You have a lot of valuable things to say, which I appreciate greatly.

Alfredo from Puerto Rico on December 20, 2013 at 12:31 am

Wow, how did that land down here? Well, that was for skzion, regarding what he said wayyyyy up there. LOL!!!

Alfredo from Puerto Rico on December 20, 2013 at 12:32 am

Alfredo, let’s back up to the odious comment in question:

“There are Jews who believe in Christ, but who do not necessarily “hang” with or accept the doctrine of those Christ believers who are referred to as “Messianic Jews.”

Now, it has been ruled that someone born a Jew is always a Jew (hence Debbie’s nickname for them, “JINO”). However, any implication that their belief in your messiah is “Jewish” is flatly false. Such belief has even less connection to Judaism than Reform “Judaism.” Even the vast majority of JINOs don’t accept Jesus as the messiah. Furthermore, there is considerable proselytizing of Jews using exactly the kind of language you are using here. It is noxious.

You are the only regular here who proselytizes Jews, and I have as much “right” to object to that as you have to do it. The difference between us on this issue is that you are on a site run by a Jew and largely populated by Jews. Appropriate behavior always takes into account context. THAT is the context. Now, Gerald doesn’t care because he’s an anti-Semite, an anti-white racist, and a libtard. And yet, you had nothing critical to say when he used you as his foil.

BTW, I take my own advice on shutting up. I am regularly in the position of wanting to say things that I ultimately don’t. This is what civilized people do. If, for example, this site were run by a Christian, I would not be calling you out on your proselytizing. However, if it occurred often enough, I would just leave the site.

Finally, as should be clear, I value your participation here. That is why I defend you. (No, it’s not because of your thighs or ass.)

skzion on December 22, 2013 at 1:12 pm

It’s actually not that clear, and I’m already well aware of everything you stated. Not only is this web site run by an Orthodox Jew, but one who has expressed openly that she realizes the heavy Christian influence in the founding and existence of this nation. She also expresses extreme respect and regard for Christians, in her commentary and subject matter.

As I said, Debbie can smack me if she wants. All you did was take another opportunity to display your intellectual superiority, and give me a lefthanded smack this time. Also, in case you haven’t noticed, most of my commentary over the past month has NOT been “proselytizing,” as I have already very clearly established who I am. But the fact that I may return to such commentary from time to time should not be a cause of consternation.

I’m well aware of the pasture I’m in, and have no intention of “overdoing” it. I also will submit to Debbie’s correction, if and when she ever feels the need to use the rod.

Notwithstanding my appreciation for your complimentary words of appreciation, that’s my take on your post overall. Typically condescending.

Alfredo from Puerto Rico on December 22, 2013 at 2:16 pm

Alfredo, this is getting exasperating.

(1) You say, “I’m already well aware of everything you stated.”

Alright, you then already knew that you were the only regular who proselytized. You must therefore also have known that there was a norm against proselytizing here, otherwise it would be common.

(2) You say:

“Not only is this web site run by an Orthodox Jew, but one who has expressed openly that she realizes the heavy Christian influence in the founding and existence of this nation. She also expresses extreme respect and regard for Christians, in her commentary and subject matter.”

All of that is so, but it doesn’t follow that she–or any Jew here–appreciates Christian proselytizing, any more than she–or any Jew here–appreciates historical Christian anti-Semitism. It is worth noting that Debbie is none too appreciative, for example, of Egypt’s Copts. She also does not seem to be besties with the Catholic hierarchy.

(3) You say:

“Debbie can smack me if she wants. All you did was take another opportunity to display your intellectual superiority, and give me a lefthanded smack this time.”

Yes, and I can smack you if I want. And I have. It doesn’t follow that I want you to scram, or that I don’t think well of you in general.

(4) You say:

“Also, in case you haven’t noticed, most of my commentary over the past month has NOT been “proselytizing,” as I have already very clearly established who I am. But the fact that I may return to such commentary from time to time should not be a cause of consternation.”

First, that’s like you saying that you only occasionally utter anti-Semitic comments. Second, your sudden scare quotes around “proselytizing” are absurd. You know full well what you are doing. Third, your frequency of “hay-soosing” started to go down when I finally decided to whack you after one too many references to Jesus.

You say you “may return to such commentary from time to time.” If so, I will respond as I have already. While I have not been condescending (despite your unsubstantiated assertion to the contrary), if you continue to proselytize, I will consider you a threat to my fellow Jew, and I will treat you as such.

“Notwithstanding my appreciation for your complimentary words of appreciation, that’s my take on your post overall. Typically condescending.”

Tough. I find your brazen insistence that this is an appropriate forum for recruitment into Christianity both arrogant and insulting. In fact, while I often find your writing hilarious and touching, your present emotional outpouring is completely irrelevant. You do not dispute any of the facts or arguments that I have presented. That is what is relevant. There are all sorts of forums in which you can attempt conversion. Do not try it with Jews or encourage other Christians to do it here by your example. There are few enough of us as it is.

skzion on December 23, 2013 at 9:43 pm

This outrage is highly selective, as Debbie has noted. If A & E disposes of “Duck Dynasty” over some gay carping, it would be pushing itself into financial oblivion.

Worry01 on December 19, 2013 at 2:33 pm

A&E never had such a popular show. If A&E and the parent company Disney were boycotted by every religious Christian and Jew, they would change their tune.

This is not about homosexuality. I had lesbian couples/friends at my wedding. This is about the intolerance of the left, intolerance against Jews and Christians to hold their religious views and to share them, the same way the left’s new chosen people, the Muslims have their rights, the same rights that racist black people have, the same rights that every non-white, non-Judeo Christian non Conservative seems to have, the right to one’s own opinion and views, and the right of free speech.

Jonathan E. Grant on December 19, 2013 at 3:08 pm

Most homosexuals I know are not bible believing Christians in the first place. Why on earth would they care what people they believe to be knuckle dragging morons think anyway? Your article exposes the hypocrites.

Larry Deepsouth on December 19, 2013 at 3:52 pm

There are gay Conservatives too. Remember they are not on the side of the gay Libtards, who are an odious sort. If you take the homosexuality out of it (just for a second) they really are no different than their “Animal Farm” brethren the FEMINISTS…acting like fascists towards those who who don’t accept their victim status or if you disagree with them. And worst of all, acting just like their perceived former oppressors. THAT’s what I can’t bear.

It’s time for Shirley Jackson’s “The Lottery” again. My Orwell before I knew an Orwell.

I think that Gerald should admit if he’s going to have a go at the gays that he himself is uber sensitive when it comes to his achilles heel. It prolly wouldn’t bother me as much if he was honest. Again, it’s more about his unwillingness to allow the same achilles heel he proudly protects for those who may feel the same way about their respective achilles heel or sensitivity. It’s not fair to be blind to your own and then easily bash others’. It’s the phoniness of it all that gets me.

The Holy Rollers are on sensitive ground on this issue because what they adhere to (as do I…) that what is in the Bible is in the Bible. Christians MUST proselytize. If you deny Jesus, he will deny you. I see that loud and clear even though personally I don’t like it (but I am not God and it’s not wise to call Him a liar…which I am also not arrogant enough to do). I can only accept what makes me uncomfortable and say at the end of the day God’s Law (in my eyes, as the Bible says…) is God’s Law and I am the one with the problem (and will be called on it in the End). It’s not an easy equation because I don’t like when Christians get all Jesus-y in the company of many Jews but there is the conundrum.

I know now and appreciate how those true to Jesus WILL stand up for His word. It’s not easy and there are so many phonies out there that I like to focus on the real deals and separate them from the phony balonies. And believe me, like Peter who denied Jesus, there are many modern day Peters out there now. I’m looking for the real deals to keep my perspective proper…not so much the lip service.

I agree with DS’ column and my caveats are within this post. It’s a tenuous place to reside and not forget and abandon our true, gay Conservative friends. I don’t have the answers but I try to focus on the non-phonies and hope I am compassionate enough as I am suppose to be towards my fellow patriots. I don’t think I always am…

Skunky on December 19, 2013 at 4:14 pm

Skunky, I agree that Christians must proselytize and the “anti-missionary” approach of Jews isn’t working because most of these proselytizers are Evangelicals who actually consider it a badge of honor to be persecuted and reviled. You are entitled to your beliefs and the practice of your religion as you understand it. So am I, therefore, my approach must be to educate myself and other JEWS about JUDAISM so that we are immune to your (corporate not personal your) blandishments. I was not raised in a religious home. I didn’t know that much about practicing Judaism until I lived in the South and was bombarded by Evangelicals. The first time I ever prayed the Amidah ( one of our core prayers that men are obligated topray three times a day, and women, depending on if they’re Ashkenazi, 3 times and Sephardic once a day) was in a Messianic “synagogue.” In fact, it was the first time I had ever been in a synagogue. But that started the process. I knew Christianity was not the answer and that included “Jewish” Christianity. I needed the real deal and started seeking it. Very few people have “Damascus Road” experiences so this was a process, including marrying a Jewish man this time around and coming to Israel. The other thing that got sorted was the Ashkenazi/Sephardi differences. Although most of the Jews I knew were Ashkenazi, including my husband, coming from a Mediterranean culture and maybe even some genetic memory or cultural imprinting, I gravitated towards the Sephardic. So did my husband so we started immersing in that culture here. But we all believe the same things basically. We just have differences in how we practice but I like Latinos and Middle Easterners so culturally, that’s where I fit in better. I don’t have any American friends here, except on Facebook. I don’t know them personally. My friends are Israelis with the background I described.
Sorry, I guess I got a bit O/T here.

Meira on December 19, 2013 at 4:56 pm

Yeah, I think we agree. It is indeed your right to get offended at the proselytizing and that is also my knee-jerk reaction but I have to admit in my religion, I am doing wrong to feel that way and at the end of the day I am denying Jesus, who will deny me if I continue that line of thinking. It does me no good to believe I know more than Him. Religion is all about having to accept things we may not wanna in our mortal form. It’s part of the struggle. I just try to remind myself that at the end of the day I am wrong if I go with my visceral feeling and NOT God’s word. It’s not easy.

Someone I know who knows the Bible back and front is one of the biggest a-holes I know. It’s easy to shrug him off and call him all sorts of names but a-hole or not he does know the Bible. Therefore, I can always say he’s an a-hole but when it comes to the Bible, he knows his stuff. It’s difficult to straddle that line but it’s all about the Truth at the end of the day.

And at the end of the day, if I had to go whole-hog and stand up for the Truth, I would do it because it is the proper thing to do in my religion. But luckily I don’t have to do that and until that time I try to be considerate of others’ religious beliefs (excluding Islam & Scientology…).

(Evangelicals are a passionate lot. They sure do know their Bible thou’, which you cannot say about Catholics, I must be honest…)

Skunky on December 19, 2013 at 5:19 pm

This should be better. It is old and from a warmer place: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNMDbHwFO7Q

worry01 on December 19, 2013 at 5:51 pm

That is very true, Skunky. Many, probably most so-called Catholics, do not know the Bible very well. I’ve met some exceptions, but your statement is all too correct. Of course, there are reasons for everything.

Alfredo from Puerto Rico on December 20, 2013 at 12:35 am

That was a brilliant post, Skunky. One of your best, ever. It really let me see the true woman inside. Don’t feel bad about not knowing the Bible. Catholics were told you weren’t allowed to read it as recently as 50 years ago, before Vat. II. Just start now and catch up. Jews were told the same thing only I did read it, both parts, and not as part of some “World religions” class. I really wanted to know.

Meira on December 20, 2013 at 4:06 am

After reading that post of Skunky’s for the third or fourth time, I have to affirm your statement, Meira. Skunky is a really impressive lady. Not that I place as much stock as others in IQ, but I’ll bet Skunky’s is pretty high. As well, I’d say she’s pretty street wise.

Alfredo from Puerto Rico on December 22, 2013 at 2:08 pm

And Gerald is baiting non-Jewish contributors as well. I did not mean to suggest anything else.

Little Al on December 19, 2013 at 6:16 pm

Great column Debbie, you are so concise it makes me jealous of your writing, and you are very funny at times. Thanks for your sense of balance.

Lars on December 19, 2013 at 6:20 pm

Typical of A&E, in terms of the perpetual conflict between Judeo-Christian moral values and the relativist Greenwich Village/San Francisco “values,” to come down on the side of the latter. But this is what happens when you have a powerful lobby that is but 1 – 2% of the population controlling Hollywood, the media, the courts, the political structure and even the fashion industry. In that respect, they are no different in their tacticology (and seeking to bend the world to suit their particular “values”) from HAMAS CAIR and the other alphabet-soup Muslim Brotherhood/OIC front groups. And for the same result – free speech being the loser.

Back in 2007, an openly gay media mogul named Garth Ancier, after years of running such over-the-air outlets as NBC, WB and even Fox, took over BBC America which, at the time, was rerunning old British shows from the ’60’s to the ’80’s, including Benny Hill (never mind that the shows in question were cut-up repeats of his 1969-89 Thames TV specials). About a month into Ancier’s run as BBC America head, he threw all of them out (and that included the Roger Moore “Saint” series, the ’60’s Patrick Newell/Diana Rigg [and later Linda Thorson] “The Avengers,” and even the elites’ favorite “comedy” show “Monty Python”), as a cover for singling out Hill repeats which his GLAAD friends, just like the radical feminists, all hated because after all, Benny often took aim at the foibles of heterosexual mores which both lobbies find extremely intolerable. The excuse Ancier’s minions gave was that the Hill show was “out of date” with the times (the same excuse Marxists give to anything they seek to erase from public record in order to remake the world in their image), and then announced his intentions to reprogram the channel’s schedule including one show where the lead character was either a transvestite, transsexual or transgender (can’t remember specifically which one) – in other words, the middle finger to classic TV fans while aiming to please GLAAD and the other such pressure groups.

As for A&E, that channel had been going steadily downhill from the moment in the early 2000’s they gave the hook to “A Nero Wolfe Mystery” which starred Timothy Hutton and Maury Chaykin – going almost overnight from quality programming (such as repeats of David Suchet “Poirot” episodes) to the lowest common denominator (anyone remember “Growing Up Gotti”?). This factor is but one reason why, like Debbie, where I live is now cable-free (the other is the prohibitive cost in our Obamaconomy).

ConcernedPatriot on December 19, 2013 at 10:03 pm

“… gay activists who called for Robertson to be fired from the show were strangely silent when A&E competitor TLC ran the low-rated propaganda reality show, “All-American Muslim,” whose participants openly said in interviews that they admired Ayatollah Khomeini and began wearing hijabs when he took power in Iran (and held Americans hostage for 444 days). Khomeini enacted strict laws against homosexuality, including the death penalty, and he also said that parents should marry off their young girls to have sex with adult men “before their first blood” (their first periods). The “All-American” Muslims and their imams openly embrace the death penalty for gays and want that to be law here, along with the rest of sharia. But there was never any outrage over that because, hey, they’re Muslims.”

Not too mention the publicized hanging of gays in Iran, the acid thrown in the faces of school girls in Pakistan, the beheadings and amputations in Saudi Arabia, etc. are also routinely ignored by progressive activists and media.

This one truly has me stumped (no pun intended) as to how A&E will handle this. Will they back down (if so, then I would bet it was a publicity ploy) or will they stick to their double-standard guns?

DS_ROCKS! on December 19, 2013 at 10:05 pm

DSR – there is a word for that.

I think it’s called “cowardice”.

I don’t know if it’s still being used anymore. Maybe it should be used more often.

The Reverend Jacques on December 19, 2013 at 10:12 pm

Even though I’m an atheist and pretty well a spiritual and moral libertarian, I believe that discipline and perseverance are musts for human progress.

Personally, I disagree with Robertson’s comments mainly because they’re a little bit patronizing – and I simply blow them off. Whatever floats his boat, fine.

But to silence/censure someone for an opinion that may seem antiquated, bigoted or just plain dumb is even more vile.

I’ve known many LGBTQ people in my travels. One of my better friends is gay. My ex-supervisor is gay. Some of my best female friends and a cousin are lesbians. I don’t feel threatened by them. To me, they’re just people.

It’s just there are those amongst the LGBTQ community who feel that since they’re so fucking previous, they feel that they should be entitled to be un-fucking-touchable. ARRRGH!

So, I wrote this open letter on Tumblr… http://rawflava.tumblr.com/post/70492136574/dear-members-of-the-worldwide-lgbtq-community-regarding

I’ve got better things to worry about. My workplace is closing on January 31. I have back rent. My mom has been diagnosed with Alzheimers. I’m hunting for work. I don’t have time and money, if not non-existent, is at least very scarce, and I still have to buy freaking groceries.

Oh, and Syria and South Sudan have degenerated into massive clusterfucks with civil wars, genocides and Xenu-knows-what else.

Where did some people get the time to get their dicks in a knot over some over-educated backwoods artisan? Jesus Fuck.

Love, Jacques.

(Sorry for the language – I just arrived from work.)

The Reverend Jacques on December 19, 2013 at 10:09 pm

Rev. J.: “Even though I’m an atheist and pretty well a spiritual and moral libertarian”

Sorry, Rev. That doesn’t play anymore. Anything having to do with “morality” is unique product of Judeo-Christian scripture.

I laugh (no offense) at these hipsters and boomers who profess to have “atheist” morals simply because the same boomers (read: hippies) have created a society where it is fashionable to mock and deride devout Christians and Jews (although Jews needed no extra help to be persecuted – that’s always been in fashion.)

“Morals” weren’t just pulled out your ass. They are the culmination of thousands of years of teaching and indoctrination that didn’t just “occur” to early teachers and spiritualists (or hipsters, as they seem to think), but was imparted divinely. If it was not, we’d all be generally savage and cruel and it would have nothing to do with technology (see many modern Asian cultures that are technologically advanced, yet still practice atrocities and barbarism as a way of life.)

Acts and notions of charity, for example, are virtually unknown in Asian culture and only recently becoming vogue in Japan simply to copy the West – they’re really not sure why we do it spontaneously.

The people who led the world since the beginning of history and still do in terms of freedom, fairness, mercy, sacrifice, love, charity, spiritual responsibility are, of course, the followers of Judeo-Christianity.

Why on earth would an efficient people use their resources to heal the sick or dying? Didn’t, for example, Inuit tribes push their elderly off onto icebergs when they passed their point of productivity? Isn’t that the more “efficient” way to do things? Absolutely it is.

But the spoiled hippies who grew up in the excess abundance of the ’50s “rebelled” against such notions. So they began bastardizing and ridiculing “old fashioned” ideology because it’s easier to destroy things and easier to cause disruptions and seek personal pleasure sans the sacrifice and guilt, respectively. As science began to contradict literal scripture, these over-nourished, spoiled hippies saw their “in” to make it seem “intelligent” to reject the *tenets* of Judeo-Christian teachings by cherry-picking passages that were easy to refute on a purely scientific level. Just like they cherry-pick what “morals” they feel like following.

It’s easier to call yourself a “moral relativist” and “atheist” when the chick you knocked up can have an abortion on demand. Just like it’s expeditious for an otherwise intelligent and moral society turns a blind eye to a Hitler or an Obama.

“Moral libertarian” is a cop-out and disingenuous. Your self-description implies that people can do whatever they want, as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone and all parties consent, but simultaneously jiggle your definition of what constitutes a “one” to exclude unborn fetuses, for example, or what particular group or ideology is “safe” to lambast and torment such as devout Christians or Jews.

To paraphrase our illustrious A-hole In Chief; morality – you didn’t invent that.

Morality came from one place and one place only. It wasn’t a hippie, nor was it “the smartest guy in the room” (barf) 6,000 years ago. It was God. That’s not a very far stretch in my opinion.

DS_ROCKS! on December 20, 2013 at 2:20 am

God bless you, bravo, and amen. You are one SHARP dude.

Alfredo from Puerto Rico on December 20, 2013 at 8:40 am

Thank you DSR. I just loved it!!

And as I like to say these days (and it works…) MOST atheists are NARCISSISTS. Listening to narcissistic people is something I refuse to do anymore. They have NO credibility to me and I detest their self-focusness.

Narcissists are deeply, deeply flawed and listening to them is a fools errand for a fool. It’s more important to know whose a narcissist and whose really an atheist.

Skunky on December 20, 2013 at 9:10 am

Most “atheists” that you/we hear from are not atheists. They are simply liberals without a clue. If you notice, they typically revile Christianity and Judaism, while pandering to and excusing Islam. Therefore, by definition, they are not atheists. They have their political correctness and multicultural angst mixed up with their anger at whatever deity suits them. They’re nothing but fashion or faux atheists, just looking for attention. They’ll claim to be something else next week.

Pray Hard on December 20, 2013 at 11:06 am

To PH et al… if you really want a real bloody “knock ’em down, drage ’em out” fight, put 2 atheists in a room. No 2 are alike.

Me – I prefer to sit that one out, thank you.

The Reverend Jacques on December 20, 2013 at 8:27 pm

Granting a gay person the right to marry another consenting adult that they want to be with is not a “special” right. It is an equal right.

All for freedom of speech though. I’d rather know people’s opinions that have them keep them hidden.

Etickets on December 20, 2013 at 2:47 am

Smoke them out, right Tick?

worry01 on December 20, 2013 at 6:06 am

Phil Robertson, didn’t say anything wrong what-so-ever. But reguardles , it’s his beliefs. There was a day and time when this was the way “America” thought. But the powers that be, made sure it changed.

William on December 20, 2013 at 10:37 am

I was trying to explain to some people last night how the danger to an American in a Muslim country is different from the danger to an American visiting a “bad part of town”. I was told that I was being negative and that “it’s dangerous everywhere”, etc. I told them that, however, Americans are specifically targeted in Muslim countries. They didn’t want to hear that either. It all revolved around a young guy going to Turkey to teach English. And, although not gay, he’s somewhat effeminate which would put him in even more danger. Apparently, people are stupid and resistant to new, unpleasant information. However, I shall endeavor to persevere in the education of these people. Oh, never mind, we were talking about gays, right?

Pray Hard on December 20, 2013 at 11:19 am

http://plancksconstant.org/blog1/2013/01/if_only_sarai_sierra_had_read_my_blog_she_would_no.html

Frankz on December 20, 2013 at 12:18 pm

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In Defense of Phil Robertson, “Duck Dynasty” Patriarch: Cable Didn’t Suspend Anti-Gay Muslims

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